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S4 E5: 2022 National Trial Lawyers Summit


National Trial Lawyers Summit
ICP Logo

S4 E5: 2022 National Trial Lawyers Summit




National Trial Lawyers Summit

The National Trial Lawyers Summit has been held every January for years. Then Covid came, and last year the event moved to the spring. The conference is now back to its regular dates but at a different location in Miami Beach. In Camera Podcast was there to tell you all about it!

In this week’s podcast, Grace and Liel discuss their winners and losers of the 2022 National Trial Lawyers Summit, which took place for the first time at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Miami Beach. From the new venue to the program and social gatherings, this conversation gives you a look into how two non-lawyer marketers experienced the event as exhibitors and attendees.

From the Golden Gavel Awards to the business of law sessions, all the way to this year’s celebrity guests, this conversation will give you more than just a glimpse of what were the highlights and lowlights of one of the year’s most anticipated legal conferences.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] Last week, trial lawyers and marketeers from all across the nation gathered in Miami Beach for the Twenty Twenty Two National Trial Lawyers Summit. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market and This Is In-camera podcast. We were there and this hour takes. Welcome to In-Camera Podcast, private legal marketing conversations. Grace, welcome back.

Grace: [00:00:55] Thank you, Liel, how are you doing today?

Liel: [00:00:57] I’m doing great, Grace. Thank you so much for asking. My energy levels are drained, still recovering from earlier this week, trial lawyers summit. I know you are the same and funny enough, this last event, it was just so intense Grace, right, that we are recording back each one of us at our own offices like this. This year was really hectic that there was no real time to actually sit down and record an episode. But that does not mean we don’t have a lot of things to say and talk about this year’s National Trial Lawyers Summit.

Grace: [00:01:32] It was a really awesome summit, and you know, coming back after an event is always kind of crazy, and I’m sure it is. You’re right. You were loaded. I’m loaded. Until next week, will I be able to get to all the people that we talked to?

Liel: [00:01:48] Well, that’s great, Grace. And I’m glad to hear that is the case for you because there were certainly a lot of events and activities around persist and the Lake Law Group. And so I think it is really good news that things turned out to be that, well, so Grace. Here is how I think we can go about giving our listeners those who were there or not. Some insights of our how did we feel this year trial lawyer summit went. And I think easy way of doing that is by classifying things that we really like as the winners of the event and then things that we felt that kind of like fell through or not have room for improvement. The losers. What do you think?

Grace: [00:02:30] I agree. I think that’s a good way to approach.

Liel: [00:02:32] All right. Ok. Yeah. So Grace, I’m going to start here with what I would call one of my winners, OK, and I’m going to give it to the content of the summit. You see Grace because we were exhibiting and we are networking. We don’t always get that much time to be inside the conferences and hearing the talks and the program that was put together by those who work really hard to make it happen. But I really made an effort and block time this year so I could attend some of the conferences and also the fact that my book was really, really close to the main conference hall where a lot of these talks were happening also helped. And I’ll tell you something. I both think that in the business of low track and also during the courtroom playbook sessions, there were really, really, really good things happening. I’ll tell you, one of my favorites from the business of Law Track was one that was moderated by Harlan. And it was a conversation about powerful messages to the press and the public making your voice heard. And the two panelists that we’re joining Harlem, where the one and only Ben Crump and Mark Geragos, who’s famous CNN commentator for criminal law. Many of you have seen him right and Grace. Well, not just because these two are powerhouses that know the media inside out.

Liel: [00:04:16] But it was so interesting, and it’s really, really fun to hear them talk and also to realize Grace that they really live their messaging. It’s not a marketing stunt. They’re really believe it. They really believe everything they say when they show up on TV and they talk and they advocate and they make their voice heard. They’re really speaking out to what their beliefs are. And it’s, um, I don’t know. I found it really inspirational, more so kind of like more I felt or perceive that more than a marketing or a business talk. Our keynote about humanity and inspiration and it was really powerful. I really, really enjoyed it. And so that was one. Now wait for it. The next one Grace that I have was one that I usually do not show up for these conferences when when it turns into the courtroom playbook. And such because I’m not a lawyer, right? Know, while I do find these things interesting, you know, I need to prioritize between being inside those conferences or doing other things that are important for our agency. And so I did created time to show up at the courtroom playbook session on Tuesday. That is the third day of the conference, and I was able to hear the session about jury selection and the anatomy of jury and implicit bias. Seeing it, filling it, understanding it and.

Liel: [00:05:50] Overcoming it, I mean, just the title, right? And so this was actually led by Mark O’Mara, Grace in the entire event. Never, never was the main conference hall so full. Then when this talk was taking place, it was unbelievable how packed it was in the middle of the actual session. They had to draw more chairs like you had banquets, Houseman rolling in more chairs so more people can make, come in and sit down and listen to the session. It was mind blowing. It was really, really interesting. And for me, particularly, I found it even more interesting and relevant because a lot of what Mark was talking about is that how do you how do you handle a non-English speaking witness while on trial? And he actually gave an example, and he was talking about Spanish speaking with Grace. I mean, it was mind blowing. Really, really, really interesting. I’m sure I’m not the only one that felt that way. Everybody was really quiet listening, super focused. And you know, when you’ve just exchanged glances with people around the room, everybody was nodding. They were like, Wow, like, this is the shit who come here for really, really impressive. What about you, Grace? I know you were busy. Where are you able to jump in sneaking into one of these conferences or heard anything that you found really inspirational?

Grace: [00:07:19] So, yes, I definitely was. Actually, I was involved in, as you know, a million different things, including the John McEnroe Q&A and all of that. So I did get the chance before the Q&A, which, you know, was a major thing to jump into a couple of sessions that were happening and that included the linear one right before the Q&A that we had. So I did. I mean, it was really amazing. The sessions were definitely worthwhile and there were so many of them at the same time that I kind of wanted to attend where I was like, you know, in the business of law, plus things like in the, you know, how did the Q A client and, you know, all across the board, there was just so many such great content, like you said. I mean, I didn’t know where to look next, you know?

Liel: [00:08:11] No, totally totally Grace. I do agree with you. And yeah, so I did. I was not inside the marketing conference, but I’ve heard wonderful things about it. So the fact that I’m not mentioning in it, it doesn’t mean that it was not great. I must also say that on the first day of business of law, that was curated primarily by Seth Price. There were also some really amazing conferences about marketing and even Ken Hardison kind of like bonus session of Sunday morning. Lots of great things were said about it. So, you know, it is not to say that they were not mentioning it here. It wasn’t good. This is just our experience in what we were actually able to see and witness in here. And I will tell you, Grace, one of the most fun talks that I sat down in a room was at Lex and John McEnroe was talk. It was just fun and people really, really enjoyed it. And those who were there were super excited to be part of it. And they, you know, they asked so many thoughtful questions and put so much effort into making it like the attendees, right? Because the Q&A was not just afterwards, John, but it was the audience towards John and it was moderating right and interfering and actually pretty funny. It was, you know, he really added a spark there and make you know and make it even more spicy. And it was it was great. And I think, you know, John handled, I did not know much about him, but it seems like he had sort of kind of like a fiery personality, very, very impulsive and, you know, high energy on the field that sometimes turn into what may have seen some aggression in some way or another.

Liel: [00:09:58] But but people, I mean, he he handled it with such charm and talk about his experience as a tennis player in the field and how he handled that and what he learned about it and now giving insights about today’s tennis landscape. The current stars in the future of the sport, right? It was really, really interesting. And as I said, it was really fun to hear the audience, many of them who grew up admiring him and kind of like really leaving his his his career in a parallel. And so it was really, really fun. Of course, there was another superstar in the sports arena as part of the event that was the Dan Marino launch Monday that I did not attend. I don’t think a lot of people were able to. Because as soon as they open up the room, it’ll get jam-packed. And so I at the time had was on a call, so I didn’t even try to stop by, but I did heard that people who actually with intent try to get there. You know, it just reached capacity very, very soon. And so a lot of people were left wanting to get in. But I heard great things about it, Grace. And so these are the songs so fun, right? How these events are bringing these personalities from the sports or entertainment industry. And, you know, break a little bit from the law and business of law topics to kind of like bring of some freshness and some outside of the box ideas in inspirational stuff to the conference. So I enjoy that. I really think that it showed up all of the effort for the organizers, those who curated all of these sessions put into it because it was really, really, really great Grace.

Grace: [00:11:53] It was very difficult to get into some of these events. Yeah, we’re waiting in line before they even started. So yeah, yeah, it was the same for the John McEnroe, right? I mean, we had to sort of muscle our way to even keep our first front tables.

Liel: [00:12:08] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people knew what was going on and they were reading tent, you know, selecting where they were going to be. And they were, as I said, they were there and and it was very impressive because, for instance, Ben Crump and Mark Geragos talk that was 8:00 a.m. in the morning on the second day. And you know, until like, people don’t show up that early for anything. And it was pretty full. It was pretty full. There were a lot of people there. And so it just comes to show that there was a really interest from people, not just for the networking and the events and the parties that’s around the convention, but actually the program and the agenda. And I love that. I think it’s refreshing and I love being part of it now. Grace, you know, we cannot just talk about the good things all in a row. We need to, you know, let the bad stuff kind of get in between. So now let’s go. Let’s let’s go into one of the of the loser. And I would say Grace, that it was the conference space layout of the fountain blue right first time holding the conference in this new venue. Traditionally, it’s been held for the past few years in the law, the laws in Miami Beach. Now it was moved to the Fountain Blue Grace. And I think that just the whole layout of the conference space. Left a lot, both attendees and exhibitors desiring more, right? I think we were way to spread out the exhibit or whole was just like. So long and so spread out, and there was it was just.

Liel: [00:13:55] Not something that could be enjoyed as an exhibit or should be. There had to be so much walking done that you were just kind of like people were just printing through it in order to be able to get from one place to another without necessarily making it something that you that you go and spend time in it, right? It was just super expansive in a way that he did not help. I’ll tell you, I love the fact that we were not kind of like, well, at least I felt there was more space and we had 10 feet by 10 feet, which is much appreciated. I personally don’t like eight by eight boot spaces, which is kind of like the traditional of these legal conferences. So the 10 by 10 was great. It was much appreciated. But just how expansive this whole thing was did not allow for a lot of engagement between exhibitors and attendees. And I think this was shared not just between other exhibitors who share the same feelings, but attendees as well. They just find it hard to take it in and to really be able to spend time here because they’re always moving and trying to get from one point to another. And it was just too much time was going into that. I mean, one thing here also was, you know, there was the main conference hall where everything was happening. But then you have breakout rooms that were completely impossible to find, literally impossible to find, like you had to completely deviate through different hallways. Signage was somewhat limited. I mean, you know. It was it wasn’t easy.

Grace: [00:15:32] So your side had 10 by 10 our side, you were, yeah, you were jammed in there. Yeah, it was technically 10 by 10, but it was so close and the pipe rape, I mean, we were honestly, luckily, we we had really nice booth mates, you know what I mean? They were very friendly and they were helping. We were helping each other. And you know, we had actually I think it was Carver’s next to us, and she was like the nicest person ever. Some of our stuff fell over into her side. Some of her stuff fell over into ours. You know, we were just laughing about it, honestly, because I mean, there was just no room where we were jammed in, and that’s because we were in the first two rows. Once you entered the exhibit hall. So I did notice that there was a lot of people that you know how they they were what I call and honestly in the bar business, they call it like that too. It’s the funnel, and that is to funnel people in and around so that they see all the exhibitors. That was really so different this time around because what they had in place, it really didn’t stop them from moving it.

Grace: [00:16:36] I know because I did the same thing, honestly, because it was just so big this time around that I didn’t want to keep walking round and around and around. Yeah, and I just would push the table to the side or walk to the water fountain. It just too much, and all of us felt the same way. And it’s, you know, it’s not necessarily their fault per say, because this is the first time they’re doing it a fountain blue and they’ve always done it at the lower. Yeah. So I understand that how it could have been difficult for them to try and create that same feeling atmosphere where, you know, the sessions were in the exhibit hall for so many years that you had to go through it and they wanted to and they would stop and look and see, Yeah, this time they were like, I need to get to the next session, and it’s on the other side of the exhibit hall. So I can’t go through the exhibit hall. I have to go from the outside to the outside to get to the session.

Liel: [00:17:26] Yeah, it was really a really, really expansive and I think people were just wanting to be practical and they had to find shortcuts and kind of like go to the dry wall in order to get from, you know, almost the lobby right into the ballroom where the main exhibitor was sort of where in the main conference wasn’t an effective way without having to necessarily walk the, you know, I don’t know what felt almost like half a mile over the whole space. And I also think, you know, for those who were at the very front at the very beginning, those huge sections where Martindale File Line and CAMG, where those areas as well, I think they felt very disconnected from the rest of the conference. And so I do think that while maybe the lowest was starting to feel small for the size of the event, the Phantom Blue felt a little bit way too big. And it it just did not create kind of like that atmosphere that we’ve grown to love about the exhibitor. Hold that the trial over something which which historically has been one of the best because of that reason. Right. That you’ve said wear sessions are happening inside the exhibit halls. So Grace and again, they did get the main ballroom right inside like you had to cross through the whole exhibit or hole to be there. But then the breakout sessions there were completely disconnected, right? Or were the arena launch thing happened that was completely on a different area that was by the lobby.

Liel: [00:19:11] So it was really, really kind of like detached. Now, grace, so we can finish up the conversation here on the phone. Come blue. I’ll tell you one thing that I thought was great about the location because not everything was bad. I think the bar at the Fontainebleau was an amazing place to network. It was perfect. It was perfect. Why? I have no idea. Grace, there was nothing really special about it, and the drinks suck and they were super expensive and there was no food. It was like there was really not much to love about the offering of the bar itself, but the layout and the fact that people for some reason, I think, have will have to do with the fact that it was pretty much in the lobby. And so the lighting and the noise levels were somewhat reasonable. That enabled for the space to be entertaining but still function for network, right? They were not too atmospheric or too conceptualized into a bar that made it hard for people to network. It was a great place where you could at any time of the day, just pop by and have a conversation with someone and people like hanging out there. I think because of the same reason, because you could.

Liel: [00:20:29] Feel very comfortable without it being loud, without it being perceived as, you know, this is like a nightspot or a nightclub or anything like that, it felt like the right type of place where you could just have go and have conversations with people and all time throughout the conference, there was always people there and it was a great place to just have conversations. I really loved it. I love the fact that people spent most of their evenings there through people, went out dinners, parties and everything, but they primarily hang out at the bar. And I think that was great. I don’t I did not feel that at the Globes. I felt that allows that people. You know, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because also the phantom blue is kind of like a little bit taken away and in like not in the middle of of South Beach, just like the low seas. And so for that reason, people felt that let’s just hang out here rather than just go across the street or to the bar next door or whatever. And so. I it just work. I liked it, I loved it, I had great conversations hung out there with a lot of people that I knew that I met there, and it just lends itself very well for, for that, for networking.

Grace: [00:21:43] I agree. I really do. I mean, you know, the sessions on the inside and all of that part of what we’re talking about. I’m sure they can take all the good stuff that we got right from the old sessions and everything that we did before and take some of the good things that we got from this as well and combine it to, you know, because the the bar was great. I mean, really, there was a lot of food options actually to, you know, go for dinner, you know, but

Liel: [00:22:11] At the bar where you mean, have the restaurants at

Grace: [00:22:12] The restaurants surrounding the bar? Okay? There was no food at the bar, as we said no. They only had drinks and they only wanted you to drink while you were there. And that’s it.

Liel: [00:22:21] Yeah. Yeah. And I’m just sorry. I cannot get over the fact that a five star hotel like the fountain blew at their main bar. They will serve you tonic out of, out of, out of a soda gone sort soda gone Grace sort of grown on a twenty dollar gin and tonic soda. I mean, I cannot wrap my head around the worst quality workforce quality, right? How can you how can you take a high quality gin in peel over that machine gun stuff now?

Grace: [00:22:50] Honestly, that’s Miami prices. I’m sorry to tell you that’s how much it is. And then hotels. That’s usually how it goes. It’s supposed to be a five star hotel. It is a little older, a little more rundown, you know, so it’s it’s because of the amenities, as you know, you know, you’re in hospitality, so you know why they they market what they market. But it was not a five star I. I live in Miami, as you know, and this was not a five star hotel. I’m sorry. It was a great experience with the people that, you know, like yourself being there, and it was great to see you and great to see all the people that I haven’t seen in a while. But yeah, that was not the experience that I was expecting at the fountain blue of all places in particular.

Liel: [00:23:33] All right, let’s let’s start being some so picky here about the location, and that’s that stuff. And let’s give back credit where credit is deserved. Grace Golden Globe Awards Golden Gavel Awards First time for me attending. I definitely want you dear next year. I’ll make sure you’re there next year because hey, number one, this is I mean it. You know, we’ve heard about the Golden, about the Golden Gavel for a few years now, right? And and we’re kind of like taking it for granted. But I mean, when you really think about it and you’re sitting down in the room, it’s really humbling to think the fact that we’ve come so far that we now have an awards ceremony and I know it sounds a little bit egocentric, right? We’re handing each other awards here as to who is doing great advertising and such. But it’s a great celebration to what many of us are so passionate about, right? Which is legal, marketing and what was really wonderful about this year Grace is that something new got started and that is there. And I believe this is the way it’s being called. Is the Golden Gavel of Hall of Fame. Right, right. And so obviously, all obviously, to no one’s surprise, it was Harland. He did think that he made the induction to the first law firm, to the first lawyer to get, you know, to get to be part to become part of this Hall of Fame.

Liel: [00:25:11] And it was a really, really inspirational Grace. So I don’t think I can make justice to the story behind what this law firm accomplished, but it was given to Jacoby and Meyers, right? And what I’ve learned as this happened, and because they put up a little, I would almost call it a documentary that lasted about five to 10 minutes of them explaining really, what was the journey that they went through in order to be able to start advertising for law firms. And this goes all the way back to the late seventies Grace. And they basically aired the first two TV sports that ever aired in the United States for a law firm. And it was mind blowing not just to see those sports because they also put them on the screens. But actually hearing the story and how much of a great lawyer they were, but how much of. Media prodigies these two lawyers wear because they understood very well that even though so here’s you know, the long the short version of the story they wanted to advertise State Bar was telling them, You cannot advertise. It’s again, it’s against the the the the rules and ethics and whatnot, right? You cannot advertise as a law firm. And back in the day, it used to be like that for everything.

Liel: [00:26:48] Apparently, doctors, everything. Nobody could advertise. And so they believe that that was not right because you know, you are. Instead of making the law more accessible to people, you are kind of like depriving them from the from access to it. And so they really stood their ground. And every time that they were being told, no, they would hold press conferences and the media will be all over it, and they would basically be in front of the pages of every major publication, you know, talking about this. And eventually they won. Right? And so it was really, really, really something. And it was very well deserved Grace. And again, it made it, you know, even more. You know, it gave you even more reasons to believe that, you know, the Golden Gavel is not just about attorneys showing off their latest TV ads and just feeling great about it. There is a mission behind this right and that is delivering a message and enabling and making legal services accessible to those who need it. And marketing is a huge element of it, and that’s what this event celebrates. Grace. So I love it. I think it was really, really great and very inspirational. Of course, of course, those who won awards, they really deserve it. Some of them, rightfully some others.

Liel: [00:28:21] Hey, you know what? If that is the best ad that we’ve come up with? Then there’s a long way to go. But of course, there were. There were some other advertisers that really, really did a great job. Obviously, amongst the winners, to no one’s surprise, Michael Moore’s don’t worry actually won an award this year for the one minute spot. Interesting. They kind of like went down down the road of doing some kind of like Mission Impossible sort of going. It’s the special agent moving around from one case to another, and it was fun. It was entertaining. That was an ad produced by Open Jar. And it’s good Grace. It’s creative, it’s entertaining. At the end of the day, what I think it’s super important here is that most of these lawyers, most of these lawyers, they’re up against. Insurance companies, most of them, right, that their advertising campaigns are up against the insurance companies, some of the most powerful, lucrative and creative companies out there, and a lot of these law firms are now really. Making making an impact with their campaigns that are as good and effective and of quality as many of these other insurance companies campaigns are. So I obviously, as a marketer, took a lot of pleasure of seeing that Grace. Grace. Let’s go for one more loser. What else?

Grace: [00:29:52] Losers. I don’t know if I’d say losers, but it because of the size of the conference and where everything was. I think that a lot of the smaller sessions that might have been better attended in general, we’re a little left behind.

Liel: [00:30:11] Yeah. Yeah, I will put that back in the bucket of the layout of, yeah,

Grace: [00:30:16] Yeah, that’s why I said it’s, you know, I don’t know that I would add any more to what we already said winners and losers. And it’s because

Liel: [00:30:23] You’re very generous. I have. I have.

Grace: [00:30:26] I’m not sure you have a whole list of them because I know you did not get a lot of the things that we normally get from NTL.

Liel: [00:30:33] And I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you one. No, and this is not NTL.. This is NTL fault. This was the whether Miami, whether Miami, whether Miami, whether it didn’t deliver this time. And I think it’s really disappointing. Yeah, it really disappointed a lot of the attendees. And again, we’re not particularly this week considering what other states throughout the nation are going through, whether that’s here in the southwest or up north in the East Coast, right? It’s no complaints, no complaints. But when you go to the trial or your summit, you expect Miami weather right? You expect warm, you expect nice, breezy evenings where you can, you know, just enjoy yourself on a rooftop and not kind of like be freezing out. And I think that’s what happened this year is the weather is not really came through. It was very cold. I mean, that’s very cool. Come on. Let’s put things into context because also people were saying, Oh my God, it’s so cold, so cold, particularly those close to Florida. It wasn’t really that terrible, but it wasn’t warm either. And so I guess, you know, that was a little bit of a letdown for some, but I think it was quickly overcome with great company, great events, great content, and it didn’t really make much of a dent. But it was there.

Grace: [00:31:54] It was frozen. I am from here. I grew up here and that was miserable. I am so glad you said that actually, because we had this whole company retreat planned and we were going to go out on the boat and everyone was going to enjoy the actual Miami weather and water. And we couldn’t. We really couldn’t. And we that day, Sunday, the day it started, there were lizards, right iguanas falling out of the sky because it was so cold.

Liel: [00:32:24] That’s so

Grace: [00:32:25] Crazy. So you’re right. It just I think I just blocked it all out because I did not want to even remember that it was that cold, because that is so unusual for us that it was the coldest it’s been in probably close to 20 years. It was ridiculous, guys and ladies and gentlemen, because this does not happen in Miami, much less around this time of year. But it was it was terrible. It was frozen. But I think that, you know, a bunch of us were commiserating together and that kind of made everybody like stayed inside and closer to each other than they might have normally being out of the cabanas away from everything

Liel: [00:32:57] That could be, that could be, yeah, yeah, that could be another thing also. Also, yeah, that whole cabana thing or by the pool that felt very weak as well. In my opinion, I didn’t spend a lot of time there. I went around to see what was going on in there, but it felt very like for like, we are here at the cabanas because that’s what you do when NTL your night, because it really made a lot of sense or it was, you know, a great thing to do. So I don’t know. Maybe it was also because, you know, the pool area, the the Fontainebleau, it’s huge, right? And so maybe that also made it look a little bit, you know, way to disperse rather than kind of like, Hey, here we are the trial lawyers summit up some of the attendees hiding out here. It felt it felt too scattered. So Grace. I have one last winner that I want to talk about, and obviously it’s going to be the social events, right? What happens? Outside of the official program of the conference and for me. The most entertaining event out of them all that I got to attend was by far the persiste dinner that you guys put together at Nobu. Not only because it was an amazing venue with amazing food and amazing drinks, and that just I do say that because I was complaining just a moment ago about the quality of drinks at the fountain blue.

Liel: [00:34:36] Not the not the same case in Nobu. Not at all. Not at all. Terrific everything. Service, drinks, food, but most importantly, a mix of people grace. Honestly, just. First of all, and I know Grace is going to be humble about this, but everyone who is anyone at NTL was there, so that’s a given. Right? It was really, really attended by some of the biggest hitters in the legal industry that were present on NTL, and that was really impressive to see them all in the same space at the same event for so long because most of them really stayed the entire event. So that was really remarkable and did not go unnoticed. The module also we’re attending, but it was also just an event, obviously that was attended by a job by John McEnroe, which set up an extra level of excitement to things and really, you know, made it even more fun. But it was just such a great feeling where you just could stop by and stuff from table to table and initiate conversations with people that either you know or you just met there.

Liel: [00:35:53] And there was such a good spirit and positive energy, and people just wanted it to enjoy themselves and to connect and, you know, create content for their social media platforms. And it was just wonderful, Grace. I mean, I I couldn’t have had more fun. I took from there a lot of great new contacts. And I, you know, thank you for having put that together because it was it was so great. And honestly, all of you guys, all of you, everyone from persist, you know, each one of you acted like like a host took so much care for everyone that was there. Stop by, I mean, from from Ed, who was literally stopping person by person, asking them, How are you enjoying yourself? Thank you for calling me and handing out autographs from Doug McEnroe, right? I mean, really, really taking care of your guest to you and everyone in the team. I mean, it was just a wonderful experience. And for me, those are the memories I’m taking away from from NTL. That’s that’s what for me kind of like encapsulates the event and the memories that I will that will stay with me forever. So thank you for that, Grace.

Grace: [00:37:06] Well, I’m glad that you really enjoyed yourself. You know, we enjoyed having everybody there. There was over 110 people. It was very it was crazy from the moment we got there to the moment it ended and everybody stayed all the way to the end. That’s how you always know it’s a good party, right? And I’d say there was probably a good 90 percent of the people. There were attorneys, right? And maybe a small percentage of vendors that we know, you know, know, like and trust and work with like yourself and that, you know, so it definitely lent itself to a better feel for the attorneys themselves, right? Because they’re so used to getting sold and and pitched and constantly spoken to even at dinners. And so Ed, this is all Ed. And you know what I mean? These are things that he he’s a consummate host and he loves putting stuff like this together where he feels like people are really, truly enjoying themselves and not just coming to an event. You know where you can actually talk to somebody and you get to know new people and you grow this network? And that’s been doing this for so many, so many years that he just wants other people to get the benefit of what he knows and the people that he knows and likes putting together. So it was I love doing things like that, you know? I mean, obviously, it was insane while we were there. But you know, I do enjoy it when other people enjoy what we put together and it couldn’t have gone any better. It really couldn’t have. I mean, the the people, the quality of the people, the people there. Everyone just wanted to have a good time, right? And we did. And I got to say, for those of you who don’t know Ed, you should. And if you do know him, you know that he’s the one that brought the wine. He brings his wine to every event because Ed is that guy he is. He wants people to truly enjoy the wine that he enjoys. And so everyone enjoyed the wine that he got. Yeah, he got to enjoy

Liel: [00:38:59] And without giving too much away here. I mean, this is not the type of wine that that you bring because you just happen to have a personal preference for it. But it’s it’s subjective, right? No, not everyone would agree that it’s a great wine. This is world class wine that is as good and as good as it comes. You just don’t get better than that. And it was really, really amazing. And everything was top quality Grace and most importantly, right the care and the opportunity really to engage for the team. For me, it was it was really the first time that I met some of your team members, for instance, in Puerto Rico. And I must say, I mean, there are also lovely soul dedicated so, so, so passionate about what they do. And, you know, while it didn’t come as a. Knowing you and knowing the team of persist, it was so great to be able to connect with them as well and to hear what they do and you know how they’re all part of this, and it was just a great, great, great opportunity to connect with them with the rest of the of the of the extended family of persist and also a lot of very, very powerful people in the legal industry who were present there. So, you know, which is again, one of the reasons why you go to these events is not just for being at the exhibit or holding striking deals there with potential new clients. If you’re a vendor and if you are thinking about it that way, right? Sometimes you do find the right, an ideal client that you initiate a conversation there at your exhibit or booth and then continue it after whilst everybody’s back in their office and eventually becomes a client that happens. And hopefully it will happen to you if you go to exhibit. But most importantly, you go there because you are creating these relationships that go well past beyond just one, you know, business partnership. This is bigger than that. And so Grace, I think that is our main takeaway, right? Be part of it. Yeah.

Grace: [00:41:07] You have to. I mean, we got so disconnected with COVID and the virtual events and this and that and the other that we we have the need. We are human beings and we have the need for contact and connection and more so now than ever. Right. So do it. Do these things, you know, I mean, even if you attend them, do attend them virtually. In some cases, you know, try to make those connections with people. I know it’s difficult. If you are doing it, virtually do what’s right for you in terms of obviously what makes keeps you safe even in these times, obviously. But try, you know, if you are safe and you’re comfortable and you’re OK doing it, try try to go out and, you know, be a part of these events and network opportunities because that’s where they come. They don’t you’re not going to get that opportunity behind a screen and somebody not even knowing what you look like or who you are, what your personality is like, what what you represent, and that’s what you get to capture at these events. You know, like Liel and I got to know each other at one of these events. That’s right. That’s exactly how women I connected. I saw him. I saw him talking. I saw his booth and I just loved what he had to say and what he was representing. And I was like, Hey, let’s become friends, let’s do something together. Let’s figure this out. He said the same thing, and that’s how we two years later, here’s our podcast. So you never know, right?

Liel: [00:42:29] Never. Absolutely Grace. Absolutely. You go there and you find greater things than just business. It’s relationships that take you and make you really, you know. What you want to be, and this is and this is this is really, I think the biggest takeaway takeaway here is do not dismiss these opportunities as a waste of time. They are not. They are not. They’re probably the most valuable thing you can do on three days of your time. Believe it or not. And there’s so much fun Grace. And one of the things I will I will close up with these is, you know, talking with one really, really, really, really, really nice client of ours that I that I really come to love because he’s just a wonderful human being. And he, you know, one of the things he’s saying is, you know, Liel, you need to enjoy your life, right? You need to enjoy your life. You need to live in this moment because you don’t know, you know, people say that a lot, but they’re just saying it in a way to excuse some, some some behavior. But this was not that this was really find find purpose, find pleasure in what you’re doing today so that you’re not waking up with regrets tomorrow or a week or a year from now feeling that you’ve missed out on things. So, you know, I know it sounds like everybody tells you this and stuff, but when you are there and you see everything that you can do and everything that you can meet and all of the people out there that are so interesting and passionate about the same things that you are and you were talking with them, then then you realize, you know, if I would have been here, I would miss this out. And so that’s that’s kind of like the message, right? Grace, thank you so much for another great episode. A terrific conference. Love being able to spend time with you and the team during national trial lawyers. Twenty twenty two. And we’ll be back next week with another conversation. That’s right.

Grace: [00:44:34] That’s right. Next week is another conversation, and a week from then I’m going to be at A.J. in Palm Springs. See you there.

Liel: [00:44:41] That’s right. I’ll see you there again, Grace. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. And if you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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