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S4 E24: At The Big Easy


ICP Logo

S4 E24: At The Big Easy





The 2022 Pilmma Supper Summit took place last week in New Orleans, where it has lived since 2019 despite being unable to host the event for the previous two years. This week’s discussion included a recap of some of the topics and insights presented at this year’s conference and why it continues to be one of the best legal conferences.

The conversation begins with an overview of the Lake Law Firm’s retreat in New Orleans, which took place the week before Pilmma’s summit, and Grace explains why doing a hybrid event turned out to be one of the best decisions they could have made.

Furthermore, we examine why TikTok is back in hot water and may soon be banned from Apple and Google’s app stores.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] KPIs then for key performance indicator. A quantifiable measure of performance over time for a specific objective. When individuals are aware and accountable for their own KPIs, it ensures that the firm’s main goals are at the forefront of everyone’s mind. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And this is in Camera podcast where we believe in setting smart goals. Welcome to our podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations. Grace Welcome back. How are you today?

Grace: [00:01:01] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:02] I’m doing great, Grace. Really nice to see you and very excited to hear about a lot of the things that you have to share. You’re just coming back from not just team retreat, but you are also being at PILMMA Super Summit, which wrapped up just a couple of days ago. And unfortunately, this year I missed it. I had a family commitment to attend in Mexico and so I could not attend to PILMMA. But I’m really, really dying to hear all about it.

Grace: [00:01:30] Grace It was yeah, definitely. I mean, we had basically I was there nine days. So, you know, from the week prior, a whole week prior, right up until the the day before the buying and selling the PE firm, which was a separate event at the end of the super summit. So yeah, I was there for a long time and saw a lot of things and you know, hopefully we can impart quite a few of those things on this podcast.

Liel: [00:01:56] Yeah. So Grace, before we even dive into that, because there is obviously a lot to talk about what went on, on PILMMA, obviously, we’re looking forward to hearing some of the insights that you guys discussed during your retreat. I do want to just share that kind of like TikTok is under fire right now because just recently, over 80 plus audio files for internal meetings that talk have been leaked and it doesn’t look good at all right. It basically acknowledges that the company has access to basically all of users data. And it’s not like TikTok is not a company that was already a target for potential bans in the United States. And with this latest development, it’s not looking very great for them. As a matter of fact, the government sent a request to both Apple and Google requesting to remove the app from their app store, which is still available up until now that we’re recording the episode. But certainly, you know where this is going to go, it could be anywhere. Clearly, the FCC is not happy with what they heard in these recordings. And, you know, it’s a good reminder that you can never build your entire strategy into a single platform because it’s fragile. And if this breaks and if your entire brand is on TikTok and just TikTok, you are risking a lot. And with that said, also as an advertising platform is not looking also very great for them and signals also that you’re standing by advertising this platform right now. They’re probably not the best. So, you know, no need here to make things much bigger than they are, but just acknowledge things for a while for what the facts say.

Grace: [00:03:55] Oh, yeah. I mean, they have been under fire almost since the beginning, as you said, for privacy issues. And so with this coming out and there being a leak with data, I mean, that’s that’s huge. And yes, as you said, you never should put your eggs all your eggs in one basket when it comes to marketing. So if this is news to you in terms of, you know, TikTok is your end all and be all strategy. Yeah, go ahead and change that now because you’re diverse.

Liel: [00:04:27] Diversify, diversify, right? I mean, that’s great. Probably TikTok is still going to be around for a while, but it’s certainly gathering not the best attention. And just a few months ago, we were very avidly talking about how great of an opportunity it could be, not just for organic presence, but also as an advertising platform. But you just need to remember that tables can turn any time at any moment, and you just need to be prepared and be agile into shifting into other platforms that can be more reliable. So. Grace Enough about TikTok. That was just kind of like a flash news segment. Let’s talk about PILMMA. Let’s talk about your retreat. So first thing, you had your retreat with your team. How did that.

Grace: [00:05:14] Go? So it was it was our second retreat. And Ed has made a commitment to the company and us, as a matter of fact, to do this every six months or so. He’s trying to do it every quarter, which, you know, that can be kind of very ambitious. Yes, very ambitious. But, you know, it it was pretty amazing. He’s this is the second time he chose it prior to an event last year, it was before NTL. So yeah, almost exactly six months later we had our next corporate retreat, which was kind of not kind of it was fantastic because of the. The camaraderie that we were able to build. And so, yeah, the the events were packed. In terms of the agenda meeting items and the things we went to do, you know, we had basically we started off with breakfast, of course, as a group together every morning, even one of the days where we got to go eat breakfast at Café du Monde, which for those. Oh, delicious. Yeah. Those, you know. Naw, yeah. That is a famous place for your beanies and chicory coffees to bring.

Liel: [00:06:23] Bring a change of clothes. Don’t wear.

Grace: [00:06:25] Black. No, don’t wear black. And make sure you wipe anything down before you sit down because you will sit up and have powdered sugar everywhere.

Liel: [00:06:33] That’s right.

Grace: [00:06:35] So, yeah, that was kind of fantastic. Honestly, that was kind of one of the last days prior to PILMMA that we got to go for breakfast together. But you know, I got to say that it was action packed in terms of even the meetings and information that we were shared. We were sharing across the board. We had our outsourced people even on the on a zoom call. So they yeah, they were able to get the experience of having the ability to ask questions the same kind of very similar feel of being there, even though they weren’t there because we did it in a conference room with a big screen and the cameras were rotating. It was almost 360 degrees of view. So they could see the people sitting, the people talking and on the zoom for those who join us, virtually including the presenters, they were able to see each other on Zoom in, the people that were there, plus the people that weren’t physically there because everybody had cameras and everyone joined on zoom with cameras on and with the idea that they even raised their hands, you know, I mean, we used.

Liel: [00:07:43] Yeah, that’s amazing. Grace Yeah, that’s amazing because it’s exactly what we were talking about on our previous episode where we said, you know, you just need to be realistic about how many people you can actually have in person and whether it would be a compromise. Not having other important elements of your operations, whether they’re full time employees, whether they’re contractors that work in a partnership with your organization. I mean, embracing a hybrid concept can be just the right move to make the most out of your event. I’m happy to hear that that was the outcome of yours. Fantastic.

Grace: [00:08:21] Yeah, we were we were quite successful in the technology that we were able to bring to it, even to the point where one of the inspirational speakers or motivational speakers that we hired and likes to hire somebody every year to come and be a motivator. It was Mark. He’s famous for being a WWE wrestler, and he’s got all these things on on YouTube and he’s been known for a while. He was quite exciting in terms of the way he was communicating to everybody. And so he had his own video and his own kind of, you know, intro and everything. So when we played the video that he had, we not only had the video on that side, but because we had cameras in different places, they literally got the feeling, even on the zoom of his energy, just walking back and forth in the middle and the cameras were following him. And so as the video was playing on the screen and his speaking over the video, I feel like everybody was so pumped up after that type of experience of a motivational speaker, whether they were in person or not. And we had three people in person and then another 20 people on the zoom. Yeah, it was a lot. And I asked each and every one of them kind of in groups. And as we were going along, Hey, do you feel like you had the opportunity to ask questions and try to get feedback literally at 100%?

Liel: [00:09:55] Yeah.

Grace: [00:09:55] Yeah. So it was it was very exciting, I got to say. And it was kind of mixed in with a bunch of events, right? I mean, yeah, sometimes we would go to lunch some, you know, like a famous restaurant or sometimes we’d go to dinner every night. We had a dinner at a basically famous restaurant. That’s just Ed. It’s always been like that.

Liel: [00:10:16] And that’s right.

Grace: [00:10:18] You know, there’s something that I think is important to mention, and it was kind of funny because at the end of almost every dinner, I would hear a comment that was kind of nice to hear and I was able to tell it to Ed and that was, I am drinking the wine that my boss drinks. If anyone knows Ed, Ed is a wine connoisseur. He loves Opus 100 acres, you know? I mean, that’s just that’s what he drinks on the regular. So when he brings bottles of wine to the restaurant, which is what he does, by the way.

Liel: [00:10:55] I’ve seen I’ve seen him I’ve seen him do that.

Grace: [00:10:57] I know you have you’ve had the opportunity to sit with us and eat dinner with us. And. That’s right. He brings his own bottles of wine because they’re amazing bottles and they’re not like the kind you can necessarily get off the shelf. Right. So he wanted and when I when I spoke to him about this, he wanted everybody to have the same feeling he gets. Right. And so when I told him that, everyone was saying, wow, I can’t believe I’m drinking the same bottle of wine, that Ed is my boss, my owner, the CEO of the company, he was he had actually thought about it and said that he had thought about why would he ever give anybody else something different than what he’s drinking. And that’s not necessarily a typical mentality of an owner. Right. Especially at his level. You know what I mean? Because usually you’ll have leadership, have the better bottle. You know, you might have something a little less, maybe not super, you know, not like it’s off the shelf necessarily, but it won’t be the same cost as his.

Liel: [00:12:00] But yeah, you don’t, you don’t necessarily go all out, right period. I mean, Opus One is a worldwide one. It’s tremendous for those who know, and probably many do. But yeah, I think Grace, I mean, it’s clearly a way of him kind of like sharing now with with the team and with the people that he cares for things that matter to him. Right. Things that mean something to him. And so I think it’s a lovely it’s a beautiful gesture. And and it’s great it’s great that he brings that part of his personality, that part of his being to the table, because that’s what it’s all about, sharing and bringing things to the table that bring people together. And so I love to hear that that was part of the things that people kept with what I really, really liked there that you said. Grace And it’s super, super important to do. It’s it’s kind of like it needs to be structured and organized. It’s asking for the feedback just as as you were doing throughout the event, asking, do you feel that you are able to ask questions? Are you enjoying, are you? It’s so important doing that, right? Because at the end of the day, you cannot lose touch with what your team, your guests in this occasion think and have to say. And I think serving is a very important and it’s very, very easily overlooked.

Liel: [00:13:13] Very easily overlooked. And I also think that kind of like debriefing the event at a management level after, you know, it’s past you, which probably is what you guys are going to be doing next week and then definitely maybe serving the team after things have passed. It’s a great way of preparing for the next one because you guys are up for another one apparently in January according as per the current schedule. And you know, who knows, maybe a year from now you will be doing a quarterly one of these. And just to add to it, I think it also makes sense when you are in a situation like the one you are now, you can potentially have one or two bigger ones a year and then those kind of like in between the bigger events can be a smaller version or it can be a virtual one with some in-person elements. So again, you don’t necessarily have to limit yourself to just doing things one way and only, but you can certainly mix and match things so you can have the consistency that you that you want to have. But at the same time, you, you can make it feasible for the operations for it to happen with certain frequency because it’s hard, right? I mean, it’s not easy to plan this out.

Grace: [00:14:31] No, definitely not. This this does take anywhere from six months to a year to plan out. And in most cases, you know, you you want you need that year to plan it out because. Of the amount of people and the amount of events and things that you.

Liel: [00:14:44] Totally. Totally. Yeah. And you I mean, obviously, just by hearing everything from the tech all the way down to the speakers, it certainly sounds like a lot of thought and a lot of organizations going back to it. And again, this is a great example of this being done at a high level, at a very professional level, but that shouldn’t necessarily set you often think, oh, well, I cannot do things at that level. I won’t do them at all. You can always tune into what is right for your organization. And just like we’ve said, maybe it’s going to be a happy hour once a month to get things started, but eventually it can evolve into something bigger with more structure, and that touches different areas that are of interest to the to the business. So that’s great. Really happy to hear. Grace. Congratulations.

Grace: [00:15:37] Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I know. It was fantastic. And I think everyone came away with what we wanted them to come away with, which was that sense of camaraderie and togetherness. That is hard sometimes when you’re a remote team, you know?

Liel: [00:15:50] Absolutely. So that was your first week in New Orleans. Now let’s talk about your second week in New Orleans, which was the PILMMA Super Summit. How was it?

Grace: [00:15:58] So? I mean, I personally, I think it was one of the even better ones this year than in previous years, mostly. Yeah. It’s just there’s different elements this time in a way that I feel like it kind of brought people together again right after the whole D.C. and the situation that happened. The last one, you know, it was it’s not their fault. It had nothing to do with them. It was just situational. So it was nice kind of being back to New Orleans, back to the Reds back and kind of where, you know, where you belong.

Liel: [00:16:32] Yeah, it was kind of like Puma doing things their way finally. Right, because obviously 2020 completely canceled or sort of like online sort of thing. Then last year, a last minute shuffle to move things into D.C., which honestly, I mean, within their circumstances that they where they made it work. But it’s like you’re saying, right? I mean, PILMMA, PILMAA. It’s now kind of like the New Orleans conference and it’s kind of like become an integral part of the experience. So I can certainly see the excitement and the influence that going back to the Big Easy to do the conference may have had in in the overall atmosphere attendance. I don’t know. It makes sense to me.

Grace: [00:17:21] It did. And there were actually some a lot of new faces. Yeah. And the lawyers side. So that was an interesting thing because it’s been a while since, you know, I mean, it’s been a while since anybody’s really gone out and gone to conferences on a regular. So I feel like we’re kind of almost getting back in the swing of it. And so to see new faces, new blood and new information was very cool. You know, we we had a speaking session on the very first day. Actually, the very first speaking session was Michael Blum with us. He’s an attorney on the court side. And his presentation had to do with how to earn up to 60% in legal fees in mass torts. So, you know, that’s kind of we were the show opener, for lack of a better term, right after Ken Hardison and his opening remarks. It was quite well attended in terms of the people in there. There was it was a full packed house. People were taking notes on the different case types and you know, mass torts that are out there including the criteria. And and so for us in terms of that it was a fantastic show because of new people, new exposure and some of the same vendors and stuff that we’re used to working with because, you know, we don’t have to be competition all the way or across the board. And a lot of times we can work with people that are supposed to be technically competition to what we can provide, but they’re not right. So yeah, that’s always kind of the feel I always get when I’m at PILMMA that even if you’re competitors, you can still work together, which is nice, you know?

Liel: [00:18:57] Yeah, of course.

Grace: [00:18:58] That’s what I’m used to at PILMMA in particular, because, you know, I’ve been going to that show for years, probably seven or eight now, maybe more. I don’t even recall how long I’ve been with Ed, but as long as I’ve been with that, I’ve been going to PILMMA. So it’s it was nice, you know, kind of see it coming full circle, kind of back to where it was from the original in terms of the number of people and the number of vendors and well.

Liel: [00:19:22] Well-attended.

Grace: [00:19:23] Yes, I think it was very well attended. You know, it is one of the smaller shows. It’s not as large as Mass Torts Made Perfect. But I like that, you know, and I’m sure you do because you absolutely you’re able to kind of get that personal attention and give the personal attention to people that you want. So, yeah, I mean, right after. Michael spoke. We had a bunch of people come to the booth and people that had never even heard of mass torts know, lawyers that had never heard of mass torts. And it was it was a very successful first day even for us at the PILMMA Super Summit. So yeah, when it comes to that, I really enjoyed it and I think that other people did. And for the most part I felt that same kind of vibe from all the other attendees.

Liel: [00:20:08] Yeah. And so that’s great. And we’re happy to hear that things worked out well for you at PILMMA. I think, you know, you’re kind of like part of the roster of usual speakers that always come with new content, whether it’s mass torts, whether it’s co counseling, whether it’s data mining, like you spoke of back in the day when we first attended a PILMMA together, which actually was the time that we met. So yeah, that’s great memories. Grace What order things were going on.

Grace: [00:20:43] So day one was basically a day of mass torts and kind of how to brand yourself.

Liel: [00:20:49] Right? That day dedicated a whole day to mass torts.

Grace: [00:20:51] But it is. I think I know why it wasn’t 100% mass torts. It was kind of mixed in with other ways of promoting your firm. Right. Because he is marketing and got it. So of course. Yeah. So the first day we were the first speaker. The second speaker was Steve NOBRE with CMGI, you know, the consumer attorney marketing group. So it was interesting to see, okay, this is how you can earn with a law firm. And then here is how you can brand yourself and what and aware of the message, right? So it was kind of talk about how you can get your name out there and work with co counsel, but then here’s how you can do it yourself as well. I think that it was a good branding day and a good marketing day in terms of other practices and other ways to diversify yourself.

Liel: [00:21:41] Yeah, I like a lot what CAMGR are doing in terms of merging public relations with digital marketing and offline marketing and kind of like really bringing in the PR to the, to the whole holistic approach to marketing, which is, which is 100% essential. And I definitely think that it’s a good move. And I think, you know, they package it in a way that you can grasp, right? You can you can actually make it attainable because what can be perceived as a complicated operation or an uncomplicated strategy to execute, they somehow kind of like manage to bundle it up in a way that you can just integrate it into your marketing strategy without necessarily going to the hurdles of building a strategy as complex as PR, tied to an SEO, tied to a offline marketing strategy to another digital marketing strategy in paid channels can be. And so yeah, I think that’s one of the things that really make them stand out is like that ability that they’ve had to kind of like do things holistically and bundle them up in a way that it’s easy for law firms to deploy. And I always enjoy hearing Steve or whomever his team is presenting, so that’s cool. Excellent.

Grace: [00:23:03] So shortly after that, we had a little break, but then they talked about mass tort mastery and it was actually Broughton Partners, Steve Smith, he was specifically speaking about what tort to choose and kind of why in a way it was similar to the way we speak about it, but it was more on the advertising side. So he’s what to know when you’re advertising yourself or what to ask when you choose a co-counsel partner. So that’s kind of that area of the conversation. It was about 45 minutes. I think everyone had about 45 minutes in terms of.

Liel: [00:23:41] Any any particular levels of interest on a particular tort that you’ve heard or felt from. People who kind of like were gravitating towards it or that they are interested or involved in it. Is there one?

Grace: [00:23:52] Yeah, I’d say paraquat. You know, there seems.

Liel: [00:23:56] To be.

Grace: [00:23:56] Still interest in paraquat. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of these are kind of going towards the end. But there were still the like the cases, right? Like we’ve been talking, those are still out there, which are the baby formula cases, guys, for those who don’t know or haven’t heard our other podcasts about them. Necrotizing enterocolitis is the the criteria or essentially the injury that you’re looking for in the baby formula cases, specifically Enfamil and Similac and for the fires that they have. So yeah, there was a lot of interest on the neck cases. It seems like there seems to be some kind of interest on the Similac recall, although it seems very limited because of the limited amount, right? Because it’s specific, lots, etc., etc.. So yeah, I’d say that they were they were it was interest in some of the old and a lot of talk about the bankruptcy and.

Liel: [00:24:54] All I must say without deviating much into it, but, but all high cost per acquisition torts uh because the baby formula ones have turned quite expensive and paraquat it’s always been so. Yeah, it’s interesting. And yeah. Probably also correlate right to demand and supply levels.

Grace: [00:25:13] So that the rest of the day kind of led into virtual legal staffing company called legal soft. Oh you’ve actually yeah we’ve actually used them. They’re great. They spoke about lower cost of operation, scalable solutions and faster growth, which you can of course, if you have a well defined and good outsource team, you can develop and create all the things that they were discussing, which is expansion and growth, using a VA, virtual legal staffing. It’s fantastic. You know, I would suggest that you do reach out to legal soft. They are one of the better ones that we’ve used before in terms of being able to provide you with what exactly kind of what you’re looking for. And I’ll even go so far as to say that they give you videos in many cases of the people, in addition to being able to interview them via Zoom or whatever else, they ask them questions about why they might be a good fit for your particular use case or requirement. So it’s, you know, working with them is very good. And they were talking kind of about how to outfit your team using them. Yeah. So with that being said, the last one of the day before the networking reception was Luke Russell with Russell Media. Those of you who know him, you know, he’s been around PILMMA for a long time. He spoke about Facebook and how they generate six and seven figure cases. You know, specifically about education based marketing, which you and I have kind of discussed, you know, how people respond to information. And then he talked about a little bit of the what he calls the three sector ingredients that you have to have in your campaign to be successful. And then he actually provided an exact model for building and executing a campaign. So, you know, with his presentation, it was jam packed full of actionable information that many people can take and hopefully use after he spoke.

Liel: [00:27:11] Yeah, we should get him on the podcast at some point.

Grace: [00:27:15] Yeah. He does have his own too. I don’t see what else.

Liel: [00:27:18] Yeah.

Grace: [00:27:18] Lawful good. Yeah. I don’t see why he wouldn’t be excited to be on here. As a matter of fact, I’ll, I’ll speak with him again soon, hopefully, because I know he’s going to be at whim, know the women in Mass. He’s usually there and we’re going to be there as well. So I think that before then we may be able to communicate and get him on the podcast.

Liel: [00:27:38] So Grace, before we jump into takeaways, what were some of the other sessions or the other one session that you think had some some really remarkable insight?

Grace: [00:27:50] So for me, it was having to do with the second day, you know, besides the first day, obviously, you know, I’m going to say Michael Blum and our session was the best because I have to. That’s my that’s my job. But no, the reality being the second day was all about technology and doing things smart and not smart. The way we think of smart, it’s smart. Like the five step guide that you and I have actually talked about this on a podcast before, but smart goal setting, you know, and creating KPIs and measuring your actual improvement or lack thereof. So I think as a law firm, sometimes we fail to look at our business as a business, right? Because a law firm is still a business and it still has operations and requirements thereof. So by looking at it that way and implementing technology that will help you achieve the KPIs that will help you. Create smart goals and see where you might be lacking or where there might be bottlenecks. I’d say that that was probably my favorite part because, you know, I’m a nerd. So when it comes to tech and how to figure out why is and how’s of where’s. That to me was one of my favorite parts.

Grace: [00:29:00] So, you know, I actually got to meet quite a few people that were very technical there. Those were some of the new faces in terms of new firms even that are bringing their own technology to the table, like a new referral company that they have their own referral technology. That was my favorite part. So yeah, I met a lot of other techs, other nerds that we can call each other nerds because we’re both nerds, you know. So that’s allowed, you know, that is. So we were that that was the most enjoyable part for me because I, I like analytics. So the discussions of setting smart goals and creating KPIs and making sure you follow up on those things and people are responsible, held accountable and you know who has to do what. That’s a big deal. And that’s something that we talked about during the retreat nauseam and for a reason. Right, because that is how your business will run or fail if you don’t run it that way. So that’s what the second day was really all about. And so all the sessions were about knowing your numbers and how to get to them.

Liel: [00:30:04] Have you heard or were you still around when they had their last day that was on buying and selling law firms.

Grace: [00:30:12] I was not, however, Michael Bloom was. So he did. I actually asked him prior, Yeah, you know, us. We stay through for everything. So poor Michael was there for ten, 11 days, so I was there for nine. He stayed there for an extra two days, almost to attend the buying and selling your P.I. firm. He said it was very good in terms of like those of you that no can know. He’s the millionaire maker. Ken has bought and sold multimillion dollar law firms throughout his entire career. So this session to me was natural that he created it. And I don’t know why he hadn’t done it before, truthfully, because Ken is the millionaire maker. He kind of what I call him, and I’ve called him that since I’ve known him because of his track record. Right. So with what Michael said is that it was very useful and he was able to make a lot of connections because we are actually looking at buying other PE firms nationally and expanding our practice without having to expand the name, use the current other law firms and kind of how they’re set up and utilize their current operations and their branding and their name in their local market.

Liel: [00:31:29] But yeah.

Grace: [00:31:31] Join together. Yeah.

Liel: [00:31:32] So it makes so much sense to me, Grace, that actually, as you’re saying, the second day of the conference was about. Creating law firms that are based in numbers that are measurable, that are based out of smart goals and KPIs, because ultimately, if you are either trying to buy or sell a law firm or any business for that matter, that’s the one thing that buyers are going to be looking at. What are the numbers? Can this be scaled? And if you don’t have that in place, then you’re going to be pretty much lost, I guess, in trying to have a conversation about selling a law firm. And if you are not aware of these concepts, then you’re probably going to make bad choices when trying to buy a business. So I think it’s fabulous. I think it’s exciting. I also think I you know, it was a natural addition to an already very jampacked conference because PILMMA let’s not forget that it’s three whole days of business, of law, slash marketing, slash mass torts and paralegal track as well. I mean, it’s it’s pretty, pretty dense. Right. And then you add to it a fourth day with buying and selling a law firm. So I think that’s you cannot ask for more. So great. I mean, happy to hear that everything turned out to be just as expected. And I’m happy for them because they, I think, have a tremendous track record of delivering insights, value and great experiences. I think we just need one more thing before we can close this conversation, and that is our takeaways. So Grace, what are your top?

Grace: [00:33:28] So I’m going to start with our retreat because I feel like I mean, obviously I was there that whole time. You know, like Liel said, it doesn’t have to be an all in person. It doesn’t have to be in all virtual. It could be a hybrid. However, I think that corporate retreats or group exercises of some sort, whether it’s meant for team building or whatever it might be for. I think it needs to be done. You know, companies need to bring their people together because we spend more time with people we work with and the people we live with. And it’s super important to keep that camaraderie. Or at the very least, the collaborative atmosphere where people feel that they can get the questions answered that they have for work and be productive. And the best way to do that is to keep reminding people of the ultimate mission, vision and goal of the firm at all times and on a regular basis. Consistency is key. So whatever that means for you as your law firm, I suggest that you start doing that, whether it’s a once a week Zoom meeting or a once a month Zoom meeting or collaboration collaborative team grouping thing wherever they might be, it doesn’t matter. But get something started, make it consistent, and do something with your team so that you at least can keep your people happy and productive.

Liel: [00:34:53] That’s a great one, Grace. I totally agree with everything that you said there. So let’s move on to take away number two for me.

Grace: [00:35:03] Take away number two. It has to do with day one. You know, and that is when they were talking about mass torts, you know, that we’re heavy into mass torts on the law firm side over here. So diversified, diversified, diversify if you get into mass torts, I cannot say that enough because I did hear a lot of people talking about spending a lot of money on one or two torts. Anybody that’s been in mass torts for a while knows that you shouldn’t do that. And the reason being, it’s like legal stocks in a way, you should diversify your portfolio of mass torts because you never know what’s going to potentially happen in litigation, in the science, in whatever that as the life cycle of a mass torts kind of continues along. So I cannot suggest this enough. Do not put all your eggs in one basket, whatever that means. In any case, in this case, with mass torts diversify, diversify your portfolio.

Liel: [00:35:59] And a little bit goes back to our opening newsflash on the latest development on Tick Tock, which is as much as you feel that platform is the platform for you or for your law firm or for your brand, you still need to have presence through other channels because at the end of the day, you never know what could happen to this platform that is outside of your control, that could have really devastating impact in your ability to sustain your current business model. So I think diversification at all levels is essential. So that’s actually a great one. Grace And for our final takeaway, what’s going to be Grace?

Grace: [00:36:42] So for me, the final takeaway is, you know, if you do want to buy or sell, and even if you don’t your law firm, you need to have measurable goals and KPIs across the board that everybody knows what they are and knows how to get to them and how to achieve them. Because if you don’t, you are not running a business. It’s really that simple. Yeah.

Liel: [00:37:06] Every great lawyer that’s been on our podcast, Grace, and they’ve been able to tell their story, the one thing they always have in common is that they know their numbers. They’re always talking to you in percentages. This year we were decent, the second year we were like that. And then on 2020, right when the pandemic hit, we first had this drop, but then we picked up this much. It’s very, very measurable for them. They understand very well where they are and where they’re heading next. And I think at this point, it’s no longer as whether it is necessary or not to have them. It’s a fact. You do need to have them, but certainly find the right way of implementing these and measuring the right numbers. But the bottom line is that there is there is different ways in which you can have your numbers reported and measured on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. So you can know at any point where you are, how you’re performing, where are your opportunity areas and take decisive actions to get you on the right track. Grace Any final thoughts?

Grace: [00:38:11] Yeah, attend conferences now that they’re back, if you can, whether it’s virtual or not, you know, because they are coming back. And if you’re able to, if you’re able to and you feel comfortable to do so, it’s nice to get back in the swing of things again and see the people that you’re used to seeing, but also see new faces.

Liel: [00:38:30] Grace, thank you so much again for a great conversation. And we’ll be back next week with another one.

Grace: [00:38:36] Next week it is. Thank you, Liel.

Liel: [00:38:38] Thank you. If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your coworkers, leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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