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S4 E29: Local Spam Ads


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ICP Logo

S4 E29: Local Spam Ads




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Love them or hate them, there is no denying that LSAs have changed the way law firms advertise on Google and have significantly impacted the number of cases any law firm relying on Google advertising for increasing their caseload.

Grace and Liel discuss why Local Service Ads are letting down users and advertisers due to the limited step Google takes to ensure that users get presented with quality and legitimate firms.

The conversation also looks at the recent development around Camp Lejeune and what we expect will happen next.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

Enjoy the show? Please don’t forget to subscribe, tell your coworkers, and leave us a review!


Liel: [00:00:29] Welcome to In-camera Podcast Private Legal Marketing Conversations. Grace Welcome back.

Grace: [00:00:34] Hi, Liel. How are you today?

Liel: [00:00:36] Doing great. Grace We’ve slightly changed here the schedule in which we record. And so, as I was saying, it’s it’s great. It’s just the beginning of the day for me and I’m excited to be back.

Grace: [00:00:49] Good, good. And you had a new adventure today with everybody going back to school?

Liel: [00:00:56] Yeah. You know, I think that you feel that you have well under control until you realize that there is just things have been slightly shifted in a way that you did not expect. And so you just need to put up with it, right? So that’s life with kids, but you learn how to cope. So today we want to talk about LSAs. LSAs have been loved by many law firms that have found in them a great way of boosting their lead acquisition and increase their overall metrics when it comes down to digital marketing performance. But with that being said, they’ve also been very much controversial from the standpoint that they are not subject to the same scrutiny that goes into the way that Google regulates Google my business profiles per se, or Google ads campaigns. And so we’re going to dive into that in just one moment. But before we get into that, I want us to just very quickly check the temperature on Camp Lejeune, because in our last conversation, we were just basically looking at facts that just a few days before we recorded and published the podcast, legislation was passed that made the Camp Lejeune Mass tort feasible and possible. Right. And I’m just going to start here by saying, from my experience, what I’ve seen ever since then is just wild. It’s just wild. You see it everywhere. I don’t know if you remember. One of the things that I was saying is that you don’t see enough videos of lawyers in YouTube or in LinkedIn explaining and talking. Well, now there is such an abundance that your timeline is just video after video after video after video of someone giving insights on completion. So, Grace, to what do we owe such an explosion in interest?

Grace: [00:03:15] Yeah. So it honestly, it all came back to what we were talking about before, and that is they flooded the market before it was even signed. And when you find out about something in terms of fees and the possibility of fees for individuals, including marketing fees that a company can potentially get for selling these leads at a markup, it it became the cost per click. It became a cost per click wild ride. And it’s still there. And it’s it’s just getting worse and worse. And unfortunately, as I said before, this is not really affecting the marketing companies. It’s not really even affecting the it is to a degree the law firms and stuff like that, but it’s really affecting the individuals. Right. So to gain a case now, right now is is kind of crazy in terms of a cost per click because of all the pre marketing that was done and now everyone’s just driving it up. So, you know, we are along for the, you know, as terrible as it sounds, the ride and it’s not a rider for us. Obviously, we’re a law firm and we want to help the people that are hurt. So what’s happening right now is it’s just it’s a free for all and it’s going to continue that way until they’ve exhausted, which is going to be a while, until they’ve exhausted either the funds or the amount of people out there that have been affected, which it’s going to be a lot of people. Right. Because there’s so many years, decades of the time frame. And then it’s the not just the people that live there, but it’s also their families that live there that could have been affected by this, by the Camp Lejeune toxicity in the water.

Liel: [00:04:56] That’s right. If I’m not mistaken, Grace, when we had our conversation talking and reviewing about what was Camp Lejeune, know all about I believe it was expected to be up to a million people. So, you know, a lot it’s a big market. And so it’s just gone from being moderately marketed to just saturated in a matter of.

Grace: [00:05:20] Yeah, as soon as it was signed, the week that it was signed, it went nuts. Like there were TV ads like almost 24 seven, which, if anybody knows, marketing, that’s probably one of the most expensive mediums to have out there. And it went from general marketing groups to now law firms are marketing on the TV with the TV ads, with their name at the bottom, as it’s supposed to be, obviously. But that it went from just I think that they were this is what usually happens, right? A marketing company will come in. They hear about something that they could potentially make any money on. So they start getting leads and they start getting warm leads and then they go from there. They’re able to either send, sell, ad spend or in the case of gathered lead lists, they’re able to sell that as well. So there’s going to be a markup across the board for anybody that’s not doing it themselves. It’s just how it goes with any leads. I mean, what do you think about that? Because I know I know you have a lot to think and to say probably about that whole situation with the marketing companies and, you know, and just kind of like nothing works.

Liel: [00:06:33] Yeah, totally. And I think we need to call things as they are for what they are. Right. Marketing companies, in reality, lead generation companies. Right. And these are people that really just go out of their way to try to generate interest from people that may or may not qualify, but they have some level of interest in the potential mastered. And then depending on the type of services and agreements that they have, they’ll sell that either as kind of like a raw lead or do a little bit of the work themselves to try to pre-qualify and then qualify them. And so I will tell you, Grace, that, you know, as a as a Hispanic marketing expert that we are, I’ve been bombarded with emails from lead vendors asking for Camp Lejeune leads. It’s just requests are coming from everywhere. And I wanted here just to to take a moment to share with you, because it’s really interesting to see how the actual search volumes for Camp Lejeune have increased over the past just a couple of months is really something that happened just in a matter of since June, since May, actually, particularly from June to July. You can can you see here, Grace, how the numbers where, you know, for the entire of 2021, all the way until April of this year, there were less than potentially 100,000 search queries coming in, including the words Camp Lejeune or anything that has to do with Camp Lejeune. Then from May, all the way up to July, it increased from May to June to close to 500,000, and now it’s at a million search queries per month on Camp Lejeune. Now, you can see also here what’s being the cost per clicks that we have.

Liel: [00:08:32] So at the moment, and this would be based out of data up until July, it wouldn’t necessarily include what they’re going on for now. And that is quite significant, right. Because up until July, we are talking about a period where theoretically it was not a good practice to advertise for Camp Lejeune. So theoretically, the the good and ethical players were not in the market putting up ads for Camp Lejeune. And we can already see that the cost per clicks were at $25 for Camp Lejeune lawsuit. Right. It’s just kind of like a very high intent. Very, very specific search query. I wouldn’t be surprised if things look completely different nowadays and that could potentially already be getting close to the $100 mark. And it will it will also depend in which markets. Right. Obviously, you know, in the proximity of Camp Lejeune in South Carolina, in the North Carolina, North Carolina region. And so maybe things are more in demand, more expensive than in other parts of the country. So, again, we are looking here at search volumes at a national level. And so the cost per clicks that we’re going to be looking at here are average ones that are not necessarily at hot points, which could be other military bases and whatever is likely to be the geographical location of people who used to be who used to live in Camp Lejeune, where they’re likely to be nowadays. So, yeah, I guess I’m not surprised for what you’re saying, but it’s going to be a really interesting to see how things turn out here.

Grace: [00:10:13] It certainly is. I mean, you could see the crazy lines and the trends and how it just went flat, flat, flat. And then just straight up in the last few weeks, like you said last month, it’s it’s insane. I mean, we saw the trends and the numbers just prove what we’ve been talking about.

Liel: [00:10:30] It’s an interesting time. And, you know, I’m interested in hearing the experts really talk about what’s what’s going to be the progression of this monster, how things are going to be moving forward and what’s the real outlook. Because a lot of times, as you said, I mean, marketeers, including myself, you know, we don’t know the ins and outs of this. Right. We we don’t we don’t understand the the complexities and legalities of this, as well as the people who are actually litigating and running with these lawsuits. So it’s going to be very interesting to see, you know, whether the hype matches the the legal proceedings. Right.

Grace: [00:11:16] I have I have two or three things about that then, you know. But the legal side of it. Right. And so I do have some insight onto the forms because anybody that knows mass torts and really any lawsuit period, there’s there’s a three step process. It’s very, very basic. If you look at it like this, it’s just three parts. First part is criteria and medical records to prove the injury. Right, because you’ve got proof of injury, proof of use, and then the form that needs to be used to file that goes with the courts. So if you take it into three parts, if you can prove that the person was there, that’s proof of use or proof of exposure. In this case, then you can prove that the person had an injury because they had an injury during the time frame that they were there or within a certain time frame of when they were there. And it’s a cancer. Of course, if cancers are usually because they’re so severe a cancer, it’s going to be a lot higher in terms of what they could get, in terms of compensation. It’s usually on a matrix basis, right? So the worse you are hurt, the longer you were exposed, the more compensation, technically speaking, you should get.

Grace: [00:12:27] So with that being said, you’ve got the proof of usage or exposure, the proof of injury, the cancer or whatever is being accepted in terms of the criteria. You get the medical records to prove all of it. And then it goes to the forms. So they initially had a form, I believe it was called form 95. I have to check exactly the form number, but all these forms have their own names and numbers. This one in particular was just recently updated in the last week, maybe the last week or two. And it’s more specific to Camp Lejeune. I don’t know if you recall, but the last podcast I was talking about, the form they were using, and it was very basic and it was not really meant for Camp Lejeune. Well, they’ve since updated that. And now there’s a short form slash long form that has been updated that is specific to Camp Lejeune and Camp Lejeune injuries and problems. So that form is what you need to file. Of course.

Liel: [00:13:24] And is it is it a nightmare of a form?

Grace: [00:13:26] It really isn’t. It’s actually very basic. It’s straightforward. It’s like one page, page and a half, if you look at it. Small print. Yes. Because most forms for the government are. But it is a basic one page form that basically says this is all the injuries, this is what’s happened and this is my story as it applies to Camp Lejeune and my injury. So it’s not going to be that hard. And I think that’s the main reason why so many people are getting involved in it, because it’s almost like the 911 Fund. As I mentioned before, if you had the injury and you can prove X, Y, Z, you should be able to file the form and get funds until they run out.

Liel: [00:14:05] I certainly feel here that a lot of people and it’s interesting because even people that you don’t usually see involved in mass torts like all of a sudden are putting out content on it and they’re starting to talk about it, particularly, you know, in the low hanging fruit channels like social media and such. So it certainly has generated a lot of hype and there is a lot of attention going to it. Grace, thanks so much for the update. And we’re going to be coming back to this ever so frequently because honestly, again, you know, just to wrap this up, I don’t recall in the time that I’ve been following mass torts for any other type of mass tort  to have generated this amount of interest. If anything, maybe Zantac, but it was not so fast. It didn’t happen like you saw just right now, the search volume here in in Google. I mean, you’re talking about ten in the search volume in a matter of 60 days. And this is all the way up until July. Now that now that now that the level of awareness that is being generated on this is significantly higher, this potentially is going to continue climbing up over the next few months. So it’s yeah, it’s very it’s a very unique situation.

Liel: [00:15:30] But Grace, as we were saying at the beginning of our conversation, we want to dedicate some time here to talk about LSAs and, you know, kind of like the true story behind LSAs because as I said, they loved by some, but they’re also much hated by many others. And Grace has, as I shared with you earlier this week, I came across an article here that was published by Lennard Riley, who is a marketeer, and he particularly helps a lot of law firms do LSAs in the California market. Sounds like it, or at least a lot of his examples are from the California market. And so he’s done a terrific job here in identifying some of the main issues that LSAs have. And I love how he put together his article, which obviously you’re going to get a link to it on the episode notes because he basically doesn’t just talk about the problems, but he also talks about potential solutions that Google could be implementing in order to create a better LSA experience for users and for advertisers alike. So, you know, I’d like you, Grace, to just first explain briefly what our LSA is.

Grace: [00:16:46] So, yeah, for those of you who don’t know, local service ads, LSAs are supposed to help you connect with people locally, meaning nearby that nearby term that you’ve seen or used to see near me nearby. Local service ads are supposed to help you gather or gain trust in your market as a verified business in your local area. Local service. Ad Yeah, so it’s supposed to help you, particularly in the for us in the legal industry, it is supposed to help consumers know that you are a Google verified local lawyer in their area that can be trusted because you were verified to have a state bar license. That’s what it boils down.

Liel: [00:17:33] To, 100%, 100% Grace. This is exactly what local services ads wanted it to solve. Right? You want it to give a way for law firms to advertise in an easy way. And not just that, but it also was rewarding the LSA advertisers with the best placement in the search results page, which is going to be the very, very top of the search results page. Right. And so I think Google, when they designed this concept, what they had in mind is like, okay, how can we make sure, how can we vouch for lawyers that they are actually real lawyers and not just put anyone in there? Because we want to differentiate this type of advertisers from the other advertisers that are going to be showing right under them, which are the search ads. Right. Which search ads could be run by anyone. They don’t necessarily need to be lawyers. There is still some rules and regulations to search ads, but they don’t need to be actually run by lawyers. This could be a lead generation companies, whereas LSATs can’t. They need to be tied to a licensed lawyer, just like you’ve said it. So Google said, okay, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to have a thorough process of verification, of background verification of the lawyer. And once we’ve approved that, then that’s it. We’re going to make sure that that lawyer can then start running ads and show up as a verified lawyer.

Liel: [00:19:05] Ever since then, they’ve increased the quality, the qualifiers to get you to show that they also want you to have at least 12 reviews on Google My Business. But here is the funny thing, and that’s going to be the first issue that we’re encountering with LSAs. Liz’s do not have to be tied to a Google my business account as of now. And so what happens here is that you could be a law firm in Fort Lauderdale. And then in order to be able to show up as local in Orlando, you could basically just claim to have an office in Orlando, say you in a work or in a rigorous or in some sort of shared workspace that, you know, gives you a right to a physical address. And you register your LSA account there as if you were there. You do the background verification on you as a lawyer. And because you are in the state of Florida, you know, you can practice law in the state. So so your your license and everything is going to be accepted, valid and that’s it because Google is not going to verify the location the same way that it verifies Google my business listing or business profile. Google Business Profiles listings, which by the way. Another thing that we’ve acknowledged very recently is the terminology has changed, right? So because there is not that scrutiny, it’s easy to actually create for one single law firm, multiple locations in multiple cities.

Liel: [00:20:53] And here is the thing, Grace. It’s that not only this is obviously saturating the markets because now all from the sudden in smaller markets, you have more than 100 plus law firms listed as, LSA advertisers, but several law firms inside the same markets, they’re creating multiple local service ads, accounts. Right. And there’s actually an example there in the article of a law firm somewhere in California that actually shows twice. Same guy, same name, slightly different name to the law firm. And so that’s the thing, right? Google will allow you to have multiple local service ads account as as long as the name of the of the business is a variation. Right is a slight variation. And it’s very interesting because in some some states, it’s not hard to get a document to register you as doing business as right. And so that is enough of a hack that you need to get yourself listed multiple, multiple times in local service ads. And so who suffers here? Grace Right. Obviously, number one, real local law firms are the ones who are really getting eaten up by competition that is not even local. And they are basically running campaigns in a very unethical way.

Grace: [00:22:33] It’s not.

Liel: [00:22:34] That. And yeah, it’s not. So, you know, I want to hear what you have to say about this.

Grace: [00:22:41] Yeah. So, you know, I love Google because Google has always tried to make things about the user and then reward advertisers that care enough about the user. So this is definitely a little hole that they’ve found themselves in. And so part of the article where he’s mentioning that for $26 in California, you can get a DBA. You know, there’s there’s plenty of ways to game the system. And if there’s a way to game a system, someone’s going to find it. Right. That’s just that’s the nature of marketing and that’s the nature of business in general. It’s terrible, but it’s the reality. So with knowing that reality, there are things that can be done, as the gentleman says in his article, and that is for me what needs to be looked at. And since Google I mean, Google does care, right? It cares about people getting to a true I mean, they do background checks. So, you know, you would hope that since they’re doing a background check on an attorney and that the the attorney and the law firm that they work for or that they own would be ethical. And, you know, that is not gaming the system. And I’m not saying and I’m not putting casting any aspersions on anybody because I will never do.

Grace: [00:23:59] That.

Grace: [00:24:00] And I’m not a lawyer. So I’m always going to say that as well. But the reality is in marketing and ethical, marketing has to do with not gaming the system and playing fair in so much that you are local, then you can be a local service ad person and using the law firm that you have and using the the normal way of doing it. Because if you’re a thought leader and your community, your community, which is what the point of a local service ad is, your community sees you as an expert. They’re going to keep coming back to you and word of mouth will spread. And so we’ll let your ads. Yeah, right. Because intent. So you know. It feels very unfair. And I’m hoping and I do trust that Google will come up, I’m hoping with more solutions and give us forums and things like that that we need to be able to complain, you know, and report these problems. Yeah.

Liel: [00:25:00] Absolutely. Grace So that’s kind of like the first part of the problem. It’s easy to get in the system. It’s not hard. Now, here’s here’s the thing, right? If your LSA campaign is actually associated to a Google my business profile, which again, it doesn’t have to. Then Google business profile will actually feed some of the reviews to your LSA account and therefore you’re going to be able to stand out from those who are just coming up with fake accounts. Right. You would think, because we all know how hard it is to get Google. Google business profile reviews. And so it takes time. It takes effort. And so when you are thinking about who is it that you usually see on local service sites is people who actually have significant number of reviews. So you would think that would stop the problem. Only the legitimate law firms will be able to show up because they are legitimate ones, like they want to have reviews. Like how can you create that many reviews on a, on an account that it just being created a few months ago? Well, that comes here comes the second part of the problem. The second part of the problem is that local survey sites are saturated with fake reviews. And so in case you have not noticed, you can actually go to a local service at listing and you can leave a review there, and you can do that anonymously as well. And you don’t necessarily have to rely on a Google business profile to generate reviews for LSA and for those who who know and do not know, there is a black market of reviews and you can buy these ones, you can buy them.

Liel: [00:26:51] It’s actually hilarious that in the article they point out that the frenzy of actually getting on LSA is so much that now LSA reviews are more expensive than local guide reviews on Google My Business, which by the way, the fact that these markets exist and that these things are for sale doesn’t mean that you should do them. If Google were to to identify that that’s what you’re doing, they would shut down your Google business profile in a blink of an eye. But what we are noticing is that it’s not happening in local survey sites. So. What is the problem here? Well, the problem here is that Google is not taking action and is not being it’s not getting solved. And. One other thing that happened since the beginning of this month is that on mobile devices, Grace I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but usually on local survey ads, only two advertisers show up. It’s only two different law firms that show up. Then you have the Search Hat’s Local park and then organic listings. Well, it looks like Google started experimenting earlier this month with three local service ads listings in the search results page on mobile devices. And it’s basically a signal that Google is considering give even more prominence to local service sites. But the problem that we’re having here is that local service sites are are full of spam. And so. It’s frustrating. The hope here is for Google to make it easier for users and advertisers or like to report these type of and legitimate listings that are showing up. One thing, Grace, that you may remember we talked about earlier this year was the introduction of my art center, where Google is going to allow you to set up preferences for your ads.

Liel: [00:29:06] And when they made those announcements, they’ve also, you know, announced that they are going to be changing the way that search ads show the. Why am I seeing this ad where you’re going to be able to report ads? Remember, we talked about that for the search network. That needs to come into play for local services. It has to. It has to. It cannot. It cannot have a completely different set up of rules that allow full out of control spam. And it’s very interesting, Grace, I think that Google has allowed this to go on for so long and. They don’t seem to be. I don’t know if they’re trying to figure out a way of implementing a solution that is scalable or whether they’re holding up to completely change the process of qualifying for an LSAs account. But in the meantime, I mean, this is creating damage that in some markets is costing law firms. Tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars because the CTR that local service arts generates is significant, particularly when you’re looking at the English speaking market and it’s certainly putting at big disadvantage local advertisers in some markets. And you know, these it’s very interesting to look at this article because it it shows how California, one of the most competitive markets for personal injury in the in the United States, I would say the most competitive market in the United States is just it’s a hell. When you look at local service ads.

Grace: [00:30:54] Google usually does pretty good in coming up with a solution. So I have faith in that they’re going to do something. And what you said about them potentially revamping versus fixing. You’re right. I I’m used to them like either fixing something kind of as they go along and releasing little updates or not saying anything. And then all of a sudden it’s completely revamped. So I have a feeling that it’s going to go that way with the lessons that they may just say, okay, this was an experiment that worked up to a point, but we need to revamp it because there’s too many problems with it. For me, I think the ultimate solution on Liz’s would be to connect it to your Google business profile. 100% think that would be the mandatory. Yeah, mandatory, mandatory.

Liel: [00:31:43] Mandatory because right now, Grace, as of now, it’s crazy. But there is actual Google business profiles listings that have been suspended. But the actual, LSA, account stays on. Right. It’s still there. Same business, same law firm. Google my business profile. Suspended. Identified as an illegitimate. Invalid. The whole thing yet. Google just yet. Like ads campaign stays there. And that that that shouldn’t be that shouldn’t be allowed. That shouldn’t be the case. It’s it’s it’s really a double standard. And here’s the thing, right? Because it has the verified. Not to it. And I think, you know, Google’s not really. Thinking much of of the impact that this has on them by having as verified something that you can literally see in front of your eyes that it’s it’s not it’s not correct. Right. I mean, how how can you be a law firm in a market relatively small with two different offices, with two different businesses in the same location, and that’s visible to users when same person, same advertiser shows up twice on the local service ads section in in a in any given market. So so yeah, I think as you were saying Grace also that you know well I want to hope that Google is going to make a bigger, more significant connection between local service ads and a Google might business listing dot or just potentially implement more of the requirements that they’re putting up on Google ads, campaigns, advertisers to get verified from. As from the business standpoint. And most importantly, it needs to become more transparent in the way that it allows feedback to be given about particular advertisers. Because for Google my business, if you feel that a business has incorrect information, Google makes it extremely easy for users to report that and to share comments and feedback on it that does not exist on local service ads. It needs to become a more transparent platform. So Grace, we are at the point that we need to come up with some takeaways.

Grace: [00:34:25] So my first takeaway is I think we could use Camp Lejeune on my first takeaway. You know, keep an eye always, right? I mean, this one kind of hit pretty fast and furious. So which doesn’t happen too often. But I think it is always important to keep an eye on things that are coming down the pipeline. And again, this one was very unusual, but that doesn’t mean that there are not other things that are still behind it. Right. And so just, you know, as Liel had said near the beginning, you know, it’s going to be interesting to see how the what’s happening with the legal side of it. So for the non marketers, the legal the actual lawyers on here, you know, obviously this is you can still get into Camp Lejeune and it’s still a viable mass tort to be involved in to help individuals because as he said, there could be over a million if not more. Right. So, you know, I think Camp Lejeune is my first takeaway is, you know, if you’re if it’s something that is important to you, if your military or it’s something that is near and dear to your heart because you’re in North Carolina or whatever, get into it if you can help people because it’s still something that can help.

Liel: [00:35:43] I love that one. Grace And particularly what you say there is very, very important. Don’t just forget, right? I think when it comes down to mass torts, it’s very common that the attitude that the market as a whole, both advertisers and the legal side of things, they just kind of like forget about everything else in the world and they just focus all and make it their goal to dominate one particular one, one particular mass tort for whatever the duration of that hype is happening. And, you know, people forget or lose sight of what else is happening in other areas. And of course, I mean, I’m not saying every wonder. So obviously very well structured organizations that are, you know, well diversified and they’re looking at multiple things simultaneously and they measure their efforts in in in in different areas simultaneously. But for those who are just kind of like running like a headless chicken from one thing to another, it’s a good opportunity to remember that that competition is not the only mass tort happening right now. It’s not the only upcoming mass tort as well. And so there are other things out there that could represent also a very good opportunity is just they’re not on the news cycle every evening. And that’s one of the reasons why you may forgotten about them or are not paying attention to them. And so, you know, look at out that look outside your bubble. Grace I’m going to say going to the LSAs because obviously, you know, the whole conversation mean about it. LSAs is. While Google figures out how they’re going to be solving this out and they’re going to create a more fair playing field in the local service space, I think the better and best way to win this battle is don’t rely just on your Google business profile or your LSA account to do the work of establishing you as the right type of firm for your market.

Liel: [00:37:52] Go beyond that right. Have a strong presence digitally so that Google can look at different sources of information about you. And no, look, I don’t know about this guy that has ten or 12 different businesses in the same city with their name. And I don’t see any additional information about this particular guy anywhere else online, but I sure see a lot of information about this law firm who has a terrific website, who has a terrific social media presence, who are also being mentioned on the media, who have been mentioned on the news in the past, who have authoritative websites pointing back to their site. I see that and I see that they have a very strong and consistent Google business profile and they also have an LSA account and all of it matches. Right. There is a correlation between all of those. And so I will show that with more frequency. And I do think that has a role to play. I think to limit the LSA algorithm to just things that happen inside the LSA space is not 100% accurate with no, Google doesn’t work that way, whether it’s openly known or not. And I just think you need to. Look at that and not try to get into how can I become also very spammy? Because eventually it’s not going to it’s not going to last. It’s not going to pay off. No.

Grace: [00:39:21] You know, to your point, honestly, I think people forget that nowadays they themselves we have much more informed consumers nowadays. So when a consumer could take ten different touchpoints before they before they convert and those ten different touch points are your authoritative site, your Google ads, with your fantastic reviews on your profile with post about the inside of your office, the outside of your office, who you guys are, who the firm is, what you what you stand for, you start. They saw you on the news. Everything you just said. Exactly. We have informed consumers. So it’s the chances of somebody clicking on your LSA ad because it’s got six different times with six different names and it’s the same face. People aren’t dumb. Okay. So they notice these things. And while you’re saturating the market at some point, it’s exactly what Liel said. It’s not going to work. You just like the meta tag stuffing, the keyword stuffing, the fake links to the different sites. That stuff all gets taken down. Spam, annual spam actions gets placed, and it’s going to be a problem for your company, your business, if you continue to do this because Google will catch on and it will stop.

Liel: [00:40:38] This this these hacks are temporary and and they’ll blow up on your face eventually. It’s very important what you’re saying, Grace and I will make it. Our takeaway number three is don’t undermine your users and potential clients. Right. As you were saying, Grace, their you know, users are much better aware nowadays about how digital platforms work. And they can see through these attempts of showing up several times and then them not having heard about you ever before. Right. And here is the thing. If you are a well positioned law firm, if you are in your market, the 800 gorilla in your market. This is terrible PR If you’re actually doing and putting up these practices in place, it’s making you look terrible in the eyes of your potential clients. And to think about that.

Grace: [00:41:50] Yeah. Just do what’s right. Be ethical. You know, it’s very simple, I think, you know, honestly, I live by the golden rule. And that applies to this perfectly. Do unto others as you’d like. Done unto you. And that applies in advertising. Would you like to be advertised to and shown ten different the same person, the same firm and listed ten different times and then takes over the local market with the real person that could actually serve your needs better. I’d be pretty upset. So, you know, if I see things like that, I know. And I notice, you know, and I, I actually go out of my way not to engage with a business that does that. And if anything, I may engage with them just to see if they truly could provide me with anything and then get a bad review. So, you know, it’s, you know, look, I’m a marketing like that’s that’s my lifeblood. So when someone goes out of their way to be spammy, it not just angers me, but it really gives a bad taste in my mouth to the whole community, you know, because they’re giving us a bad name, you know, like I’m I’m a marketer with ethics, you know, and I believe everybody should be marketers with ethics, especially in the legal industry. But any industry.

Liel: [00:43:08] Well, there you have it. Be ethical, otherwise Grace it’s going to come in many more. Grace, thank you so much. Really, really fun conversation here about a very frustrating topic. And like, we’ll keep our fingers on the pulse of what’s happening with local service ads and keep you posted. Grace Thank you. And we’ll be back next week for a very interesting conversation.

Grace: [00:43:34] Next week, it is Liel. Thank you.

Liel: [00:43:36] All right. Take care. Bye. If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your coworkers, leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com We’ll see you next week.

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