ICP Logo

S3 E43: No Soliciting


ICP Logo

S3 E43: No Soliciting





At this point, you already know that third-party data is going away; as a matter of fact, it has already started to disappear. Privacy is at the center of the shift that search engines are implementing due to an increased demand from users to protect their personal information.

But will users be willing to let go of search ads in favor of more privacy? How about paying $5 a month not having to see an ad in their search engine ever again? Companies like Neeva see a future in this trend, and while the company has a long way to go before they can make a complete case on why their platform can provide a better experience than Google, we already have a glimpse of how that looks.

Grace and Liel, explore the pros and cons of Neeva’s new FastTap Search feature on their mobile app, what lawyers should know about it, and do a quarterly review of cybersecurity updates.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] Imagine being able to skip through the ads every time you search for something in Google or even better to be offered the listings most relevant to you directly under the search bar as you’re typing. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And This Is In-camera podcast where we like Google Search Experience, but feel very curious about Neevas first job search future. Welcome to in-camera podcast, private legal marketing conversations, Grace, welcome back.

Grace: [00:01:00] Hi, Liel, how are you?

Liel: [00:01:01] I’m great Grace, but I’m probably not as well as you are. You’re back in Las Vegas.

Grace: [00:01:06] I am. I’m back in Vegas again.

Liel: [00:01:09] So what are the plans for tonight? Rod Stewart Elton John? What show are you going to be? Which buffet you’re going to go to? Grace, you’re a native there, right? You know all the places you’re the person to ask.

Grace: [00:01:21] Yeah, yeah, I wish I were. Actually, I do. I know quite a bit in Vegas haven’t been here enough times, but you know, I’m here for a show for the trial lawyers university. We’re a pretty big sponsor, so I had to come in a day early to stuffed some bags.

Liel: [00:01:35] Yeah, you know what, Grace? I know it’s super early. The event hasn’t even started. You’re here a day before the actual event starts, and so there is not much that you can share at this point about it. But I’m really, really looking forward to hearing your feedback about the event, about the atmosphere, the attendees, who is there and the interest levels right that there are, you know, at the exhibitor hall in general during the networking sessions and such. I think it’s a it’s an event that seems very promising. We’ve been talking about it quite quite a bit over the past few weeks. It’s just going to be interesting to see how it actually turns out.

Grace: [00:02:10] Yeah, it’s my first time at this one, our first time exhibiting at trial lawyer university or even coming to the event period. So definitely be interesting to see how it all kind of pans out.

Liel: [00:02:21] It absolutely will be Grace. So Grace, to get us started in today’s conversation, which we’re going to be diving into some updates that relate to cybersecurity and kind of like on that same line with privacy centered, focused in mind. I wanted to share an update that I came across a few days ago that it’s with regards to Neevas new platform mobile search browser that we’ve mentioned it probably a year ago when Neeva was first announced. And for those who do not remember or do not know what Neeva is, so Neeva is a search engine that was being founded by an ex senior vice president from Google, and the whole idea behind Neeva is the way they are going to differentiate themselves from Google. And being in other search engines that are primarily advertising centered is that they were going to be privacy centered, so they were not going to have any type of advertising shown up when users are actually using the platform to complete search queries. And apparently, it turns out there’s already a app from Neeva that can be used and can be downloaded, and you can actually basically use it as your web browser. And what’s very interesting here is that they do not have a search results page. So as opposed to Google that you input your search query on the search bar and then hit enter, and then it takes you to basically a landing page that it’s your search results page where you have all of the different listings listed.

Liel: [00:04:05] So you have the ads, you have local PI, you have all of the things there, right? All of the different sections that are now in the Google search results page in Neeva. It actually, as you are typing, kind of like similar to the feeling low key of thing from Google. But here, as you’re typing, it actually is listing the results of the website that are most likely to be relevant to you based on what you’re typing. So the idea here is keeping the search results page, giving you the results as you are actually inputting the search query and then making it easier for you to hopefully find the right website that’s going to meet your your intent right now. A couple of things here. It’s user friendly. Probably, yes, because it basically is saving you a step. So ux wise, it could actually be very beneficial, providing that the search result, even though it’s not an actual result on a page, is just the first option coming down off the list. It actually if, if it’s relevant, then great. But what also, you know, becomes very evident here is that there is still ranking right. I mean, there is still positions, there are still position one.

Liel: [00:05:28] still position two like. The list is served to you, obviously in some sort of order of priority. And so it would be very interesting as we’re getting to know more Neeva to understand the similarities between the way that Google ranks and the way that Neeva ranks. And so I just think it’s interesting, right? Because last year, when we talked about this, it felt like we. Million years away from this platform, actually seeing light. And even though we already have things like Doctor Go and stuff and they’ve been around forever, we’ve never really paid a lot of attention to them because, you know, their market share of the search market is none like they don’t make. Yeah. They cannot even make a dent in it, but neeva seem to be. Probably, you know, with a pedigree that is backing it up. It feels like they they are the ones geared to be the main contender to Google. If anyone’s ever going to be and I don’t know, I will it. The bottom line is that we’re still years away from that actually happening. And it’s interesting just the fact that there is already a platform out there is charging five dollars per month to users for a search experience where you’re not seeing ads. So Grace, what are what are your thoughts? How do you feel about this?

Grace: [00:06:55] So I feel like they’re almost going back to the original model of Google. If you think about it

Liel: [00:07:01] Because Google, I mean,

Grace: [00:07:03] Right, they said no ads. That was the whole thing. At the beginning. There was never supposed to be ads. It was supposed to be kind of a really, really it didn’t say, no, I didn’t know that. They said that they put. So the reason they had a white page on the search and it just said Google was because there was it was never to be cluttered. So yeah, that’s one thing that Google from the very beginning was all about supposed to be the search intent and the user. And so when they they originally only had maybe a couple of listings that would pop up back in the day? I don’t know how far back you remember the results or what you would see on Google, but it wasn’t that many. So I feel like this new platform and what they’re trying to do is to go back to the OG or original Google. And reason behind Google, which is here is your answer to your question without you having to dig, dig, dig.

Liel: [00:07:57] But yeah, that yeah, that I see. Yeah, that I see. I mean, and I’ve searched here my screen. Would you Grace so you can see basically what the user experience like, right? So it’s it’s that right. It’s stripping down everything to the essentials. So you’re searching, for instance, in this example for flowers and you’re literally being served with a link to the side that is going to be more relevant for that search query. And I think that is the essence of of search, right? Is finding the most relevant site to meet your your search intent. Now what I what I have seen kind of like following up into what you’re saying. What was Google originally and what it has become? Google is now becoming more of a platform that is not just limited in satisfying your search intent, but kind of like trying to predict what you’re going to need next and try to inspire you with new ideas. Right? One thing that has also starting to show up when you’re doing different types of search queries that could be better served through video is that there is now a little video carousel that’s actually showing TikToks, not just YouTube videos or website videos is actually also getting information and clips from from TikTok. And so, you know, and you can actually watch what some of these videos natively almost right from within Google. And I think what Google is trying to do here is trying to keep users as much as possible inside the platform, whereas Neeva is not trying to do that anyway. It’s trying to just be that connector between what you’re trying to find and where you’re going.

Liel: [00:09:41] Whereas Google is trying to become more and more and more your center point for everything in the internet and trying to become more the one platform solution that you need for everything, whether it’s for storing data right, which is drive creating business documents through their G Suite and obviously Gmail, which is probably the most widely used email platform out there. And then you have YouTube and you have, you know, all of the other things that Google is offering a solutions, which now allows you to buy directly from the search results page through shopping. It allows you to book flights to book hotels. It’s now even giving you Google car dealer car. Yeah, like pricing on new cars and that sort of thing is coming up. They’re not too sure what the game plan is there. If they’re actually going to allow for lead generation, that’s going to then be fed to auto retailers. What’s the game plan in there? But the bottom line here is that Google is trying to provide all of. The answers within its platform rather than sending people out, and that’s not what we were seeing here Neeva. And I think what’s going to be interesting here is if users are going to find it more convenient to continue using Google with all of these solutions that are based on predictability or users are going to prefer to have more control over their online experience by opting to use platforms like Neeva. I think, you know, very early days. Still, it’s going to be very interesting to see where does this whole take us? What do you think?

Grace: [00:11:26] So I think it is all very interesting, particularly because we just spoke about continuous scrolling and how they just added that. And these are this platform is basically going the opposite with one result, right? So it’s kind of interesting to see the tactics they’re taking to try and get market share because we all know Google is, you know, Google is it, you know, you have maybe edge Microsoft Edge right after, and that’s very far, very far down the line and Bing and all of those. So, you know, like you said, Duck, Duck. I was going to ask about that because that’s one of those one of the original privacy, you know, browsers, but nobody talks about it. They don’t have any market share.

Liel: [00:12:07] It doesn’t. And it’s weird also because it also does show so much. And it’s just, you know, like

Grace: [00:12:13] It basically experience.

Liel: [00:12:15] Yeah, yeah, it became just a platform that lacks any kind of personality. And so, you know, I don’t know if that’s something that could be the fate here of Neeva, but certainly it’s trying to break away from the traditional model of what search engines are right now. And so, yeah, I thought that was very interesting. But by the way, you’ve mentioned continuous current. Have you ever experienced it because it has already showed up to me a couple of times for some search queries? And it’s really great. Grace because, you know, on mobile, the experience of scrolling is kind of like very satisfying up to a certain extent, and it just feels very intuitively right to just keep on scrolling. And it’s you do realize that you kind of like reached the end of that first section because like a little animation that is loading up the next set of results shows up for, you know, a second or less, but is not disruptive at all. And it also doesn’t send you any signals as like you are, you know? Well, you’re about to head to the next section where their quality of results is not going to be that great. It actually feels very it still feels very unified to that first page. And you know, it’s also interesting to see all of these new sections that we haven’t really talked a lot about. We’ve mentioned some of them recently now, but the new sections that Google is adding to the search results pages, right with articles being featured, kind of like snippets.

Liel: [00:13:50] And then obviously there is all these carousels, whether they’re pictures, whether they’re videos, the frequently asked questions like it’s becoming very interactive. It’s not just blog of 10 links to different sites. There is in between a lot of other things that definitely make the experience more more interesting. It’s it’s not it’s not necessarily as predictable what’s going to show up on the search results page for people who have curiosity, it’s very easy for them to just, you know, spend time researching and navigating and clicking on things. And yeah, it’s immersive. There’s room for that. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It reminds me it’s not here. Yeah, it’s not as transactional as it once was. And I think I think you’re right when you say kind of like the original Google where it was very, you know, in and out, like, I go there, I search, find my results, and if I go to the to the website that I was actually looking for, we’re spending more time in this platform. That’s right Grace. So yeah, that’s our Neevas update. And of course, you know, because we care a lot about organic traffic here and pay traffic, we need to keep our eyes open for these now, Grace. You’ve mentioned cybersecurity. It’s getting harder to identify. Malignant activity, right, so what updates do you do? Do we need to be aware of?

Grace: [00:15:19] So they’re hiding most of their information in deep links, which is it’s generally speaking, if you look at the from email address or if you hold your cursor over a link, you can usually tell what that link is actually saying, as opposed to what the text that’s displayed. Right. So we’re

Liel: [00:15:40] Worried points. That’s right.

Grace: [00:15:42] Correct. So what a lot of these companies? Well, the hackers let me rephrase. Not companies, necessarily hackers are doing is they’re embedding these links either within images or they’re embedding them in a website that’s within a website. So when you hover over the initial link, it does appear as if potentially it was from the correct location and then they’re taking it a step further. So let’s say you look at the from email address. I use that because that’s probably the easiest way to tell a difference between a fake and a real. And a lot of them are able to spoof your email address, which a lot of times will come through and hit your junk email. So you shouldn’t have too much too many problems with that. But what they’re doing is that they’re creating. I’ll give you an example. I received an email today that said For Persist at whatever dot com and it look like For Persist at four percent dot com. But because I know to look at email headers, which is sort of the data in the back end of the email, I was able to see that this was not actually from that email address, much less that it was. What really triggered me was that it’s at a For Persist scam at something, something For Persist. So They’re adding subdomains, which is a URL attached to their URL. Yeah, which makes it look like it’s really yours, but it’s not. So you’re getting very sophisticated. And particularly with banks and banking information, I would suggest that people change their passwords every 72 days. A lot of these systems actually have that kind of built into them, particularly with all the data that we we use, right? I mean, we have people’s very protected health information, and a lot of times we don’t realize, you know, that even though internally we may have everything saved and the way it’s supposed to be, the moment that it goes outside of the network or in emails from outside to inside, you can potentially open it up to issues.

Liel: [00:17:56] Can I ask something? Yes. Like with with two step verification, do you still think that it’s necessary to do reset of your password or renew your password every 90 days, which is traditionally kind of like the threshold of time that you need to renew your password? So because it seems like two step verification is kind of like puts that extra layer of security that that gives you that kind of like more on the spot access, right? Like if, if, if it’s not you, then you know, you’re not going to get the text message on your phone or something. And so inevitably, they’re not going to be able to access the account. So what what what is your best practice when it comes down to that?

Grace: [00:18:42] So to step and then there’s MFA, which is multifactor authentication multifactor, right? Yeah, MFA is better because it adds a couple of layers, right? You can add an email address, you can add a cell phone number and you can have multiple ways of authenticating to make sure that it’s you. So if you have an app or even a Microsoft Authenticator app, which is something that can be added to your browser if you have that type of authentication, you know, in general, you don’t have to reset your password every so often. However, most people, even with MFA, they potentially don’t have a pin on their phone. They don’t have a lock on their phone or they don’t have a lock on whatever that MFA is attached to. So it’s only as good as the authentication method that you’re using. Mm hmm. So yes, I I would say that you don’t have to reset your password if you’re using two step or multifactor authentication. However, it’s only as good as what you have on you at the time. So if you have an authenticator app on your phone, that’s great. Just make sure that you have a pin or something on your phone that is not easily recognizable because a lot of times people can still get into your phone. Yeah, no, totally. People put their phones down everywhere all the time. It’s, you know, it seems safe because it’s locked. But if you don’t lock your phone on the regular or you leave it open based on time. People can still get the information and they can still see certain things, including if you’re on public Wi-Fi. So, right, you know, there’s there’s a lot of variables, unfortunately, or factors involved in cybersecurity that because they’re getting so sophisticated, it makes it really, really hard to be on the lookout for everything all the time.

Grace: [00:20:41] The only thing I have to say about all of that, and I will always tell people this over and over again. It’s if you’re not expecting an email or an attachment or anything from that individual that you’re getting it from and there’s an attachment to it. Ask, find out before you click, download or open anything that you are not expecting, because there’s plenty of times where I’ve gotten a text saying, Hey, I changed my cell phone number. Can you do this? Obviously, I knew that person was. It’s a lie. It’s fake because of what they asked me to do, which was having to do with buying them gift cards, really. But it’s not always that obvious. You know, one of one of our newest newer employees a while back got a text message saying something similar Hey, you know, I changed my phone. I did this, I did that. And it was from what seemed like it was an executive of our company. And they sent me a screenshot, said, Hey, this seems odd. They’re asking me to do x y z. I said, No, definitely not. Not that person. Don’t even bother answering block that number and report it. So, you know, are steps that we can take. Unfortunately, it’s it’s not easy to actually catch the individual or the hacker or the company or whatever it is that’s doing this. But sometimes you can, and there are ways to protect yourself, and that’s always be on the lookout if you’re not expecting it. Don’t open it. That’s the most important thing. I could tell everybody in anybody. Yeah.

Liel: [00:22:13] And it’s actually interesting, Grace, because what you’ve mentioned there, particularly when when it comes through emails, is that when at least in G-suite with Gmail, when it receives an email that is being sent out from your own organization or has too many matching factors to your own account, it would actually automatically flag it out and say that this looks like a spam email. And it’s actually it’s very, you know, in our case, it’s it’s a genuine email from inside the organization. It just comes out or made it out of other platforms, right, that are sending it with our email masked. Does that make any sense? So, you know, the the actual server that is sending the email is not ours, but it’s sending it out with an email of ours on display. And so it’s just a notification, it’s a notification from one of the software solutions that we use that it’s letting us know, Hey, this has happened, and so it sends us an alert over email. And when the alert gets registered on our inbox, the Gmail says, Hey, this actually looks like potential spam activity to me because it says that it’s an email coming from inside your organization. But it’s not. But it’s not. This is not an email from inside your organization, so every single time we need to market us, no, it’s safe. We know, like we know why it’s coming and who’s sending it. And so I think my point here is that technology is already kind of like helping you identify these kind of threats. But as you’re saying, right, they’re getting better, they’re getting more sophisticated, added. And I think, you know, an extra layer of curiosity from our end to question and make sure that we are paying a little bit extra attention as to what we open, what we click on. It’s 100 percent appropriate.

Grace: [00:24:17] And that’s the key, right? Just be a little more observant than you might normally be, but all of us that work in the legal industry, we’re used to having to look at information on the regular basis and question things right. I mean, a lot of times we’re in legal because we question. We question whether, you know, on your end, it’s marketing why, why this runs the way it should. What’s a better way of of marketing in a particular region or an area? So we all question things. So I’m just saying for everyone to add that to their questioning mind and make sure that you question every email that you’re not expecting. Not every email, just the emails that you were not expecting. And why’s behind it. If you were supposed to not get that email and there’s an attachment in particular or a link in the body, and it’s not just text and you were not expecting that email. Question it,

Liel: [00:25:07] Ask. That’s right, Grace. It’s always good to remind ourselves, you know, just like, are we supposed to be changing our password every 90 days, every 90 days? We have an episode where we are reminding ourselves about all of these things. So that’s good. That I think really brings us to our takeaways for this conversation, which should be very straightforward. So Grace, takeaway number one.

Grace: [00:25:34] Ok, so for me, takeaway number one would be having to do with the app that we talked about. You know, I look at other things in terms of other search engines. They might serve your purpose a little better, but we just know in the back of your mind that Google is still it in terms of market share. So don’t just start spending money on something like Libya that you know, it doesn’t even have advertising, so have it in the back of your mind. Always look, just always be aware of new things, new trends, new information. We’ll be here to make sure that you are aware of it, and that’s what our podcast is for. But to me, takeaway number one is that it’s just be aware. Listen to our podcast and know that there’s other things and trends out there that are coming down the pipeline, which may or may not do anything to Google’s market share, but it’s still important to be aware of it.

Liel: [00:26:27] I’m going to agree with you on that one Grace. I think it’s not. It’s not so much about how much of a threat Neeva, Neeva is. It’s about being aware, right, that you cannot build up your entire marketing strategy on one source for your leads. You cannot 100 percent rely only on organic traffic. You can all 100 percent rely on page traffic. You cannot only rely on search. You need to also be working on your referrals and your community outreach on your social. So, you know, this is a good reminder that there could be a future in which paid search is no longer going to be as effective as it is today. And the same goes for the reliability of search, right? I mean, you know, every single year for a few times we see and we know it is very disruptive changes in organic search rankings, right? So it is very important to acknowledge that at any given point, you can lose a significant amount of your traffic and then consequently calls and leads because of that. So you, you know, when it happens, it happens. But you need to make sure that your your your you have other strategies that are going to be able to keep you afloat. Yeah, yeah,

Grace: [00:27:50] I agree completely. Exactly. All right. Have other strategies and think of other things to have in mind. So I’d say for me, the takeaway number two, if you’re OK with me taking number two, I

Liel: [00:28:03] Absolutely Grace.

Grace: [00:28:04] It has to do with cybersecurity. And I think we’ve said it a few times, but I have a two and three actually attached to cybersecurity, even though I didn’t quite go down that line of the second, the third one. But the second one is check. Make sure you have multifactor authentication or two step authentication methods included as part of your logins. Most CRM systems, most systems out there, period, have that. If you do not, then make sure you change your password every seventy two to 90 days and make sure it’s a strong password. So, you know, I would say most organizations have G Suite or Office 365 or something like that where you can enforce a policy for passwords or have forced MFA, which is multifactor authentication or a minimum at a minimum two step authentication method. So that to me is takeaway number to check that, make sure you have it. Do you have MFA? Do you have two step method? If not, then at least implement a rolling, strong suggested password policy that changes every 72 to 90 days.

Liel: [00:29:16] Yeah, I think that’s great, Grace. I honestly think that, you know, passwords or particularly online passwords have always been a burden for everyone and the reason why people do not get very creative with them and tend not to go after the very complex, encrypted solutions that web browsers come to suggest is because, you know, nobody wants to be dealing with being locked out of a platform that they need access to when they need access to. And so I definitely think that the days where you need to compromise on security for convenience are kind of like behind us. You can certainly leverage some very powerful solutions that A) are going to out-of-date your passwords every you know with the frequency that you said. But I think the most commonly it’s 90 days. So they out-of-date your passwords. And the other thing here is that while they still give you all of those great features of autocomplete that allow you to, you know, whenever you’re online and going to go to a site, it will all populate your password. But it would still implement an extra layer of what you just mentioned, right? Whether it’s two step verification or it’s going to send you our request for an authorization through a mobile app or something like that, it’s it’s going to be there. And so you’re kind of like leveraging that convenience of not having to necessarily know your password by hard keeping it on a very secure keychain that’s going to be secured by at least two steps of protection so that, you know, if you are logged in into that, leaving your desktop unlocked and anyone can come and start using your browser still doesn’t have full access to all of the platforms. But that’s another one, right? Grace. I mean, in office environments, particularly now how common it is to to be in co-working spaces, shared desks, offices, suites, whatever, right? I’ll just take one destruction for someone to really have access to everything you have and own. So, yeah,

Grace: [00:31:31] And unsecured Wi-Fi.

Liel: [00:31:33] Yeah, the Wi-Fi thing. Yeah, yeah, you’re you’re always very focused on on network connections. And you know what, Grace? It’s actually very yeah, you’re you’re absolutely right. And I want to share with you that, you know, during our last conferences, we are we’re using square terminals to process transactions with card payments, right? And just so, you know, like again, like the technology is on your side, they want to make sure that you are secure. So just so, you know, for instance, square like the terminal, would not allow you to connect the terminal to Wi-Fi of a hotel, for instance, because they would not feel that that connection is secure to run the transaction. So it will only connect to a mobile hotspot that is password protected following the right protocols. Correct? So that’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s super important to know that that square is what the technology is already setting some, some blocks whenever it notices that there could be a potential risk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, PCI for clients.

Grace: [00:32:44] So that’s credit card compliance is PCI compliance. So I’m glad that Square is up their game in terms of showing if it’s like a hotel, Wi-Fi or something. No, not connecting, not happening. So it’s great to hear.

Liel: [00:32:57] So it is a hundred percent so Grace. It’s one more take away,

Grace: [00:33:01] So take away number three for me. We’re going back to, you know, don’t use unsecure Wi-Fi, of course, as you mentioned, but the regularly check and update permissions. So this is what I was saying. I didn’t quite really mention that when we were talking during the podcast, but it has to do with security and that is what permissions do. Does your do your employees have to access your data in your CRM, in your case management software, your laptops, your office literally files everything you have. You should regularly check and update permissions if people leave. Yeah, people don’t work there anymore. People get fired. New people are hired. You have to check all of that on a regular basis. And most serums are case management software out there has an entire admin view of permissions.

Liel: [00:33:54] I think that’s really important. Grace, like an off boarding a SOP is super important because a it’s really very easy to miss out on deactivating certain credentials, removing accesses that you just need to be very careful because if somebody who is no longer part of your organization happens. Who have access to some of this information or do something that is not by the book, you’re going to be liable for it. So it’s yeah, it’s one of those things that come with now working remote and from the cloud is that you’re basically enabling a system that gives access remotely to all of your organization, to everything that they need to complete their work. And that’s great. That’s actually something amazing. But you just need to make sure that, as you just said, the right people have the right access to the right resources. And when they no longer have access and need access to it, it’s actually secure. And you know, going back to the Wi-Fi connections that you’re mentioning here is already Wi-Fi connections are using safe to access this, which is another big thing, right? Because it’s not going to be the same if they’re using a wi fi on their home or if they’re using a wi fi on a coffee shop. So that’s for sure, there are risks in that too as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And listen, there’s organizations some do not allow for for connecting through unsecured connections to certain to certain parts of their, you know, network or cloud. Mm hmm.

Grace: [00:35:38] We have that. We have locked down networks. So if you try to connect to our network and you’re not authenticated to do so, you can’t get in.

Liel: [00:35:46] Yeah, that’s it. That’s that’s how it works. Grace, I want to wish you good luck in your event this week, and I’m looking forward to hearing about it next week and we’ll have another great conversation. That’s right.

Grace: [00:36:00] That’s right. Ready for it.

Liel: [00:36:03] All right. Grace. Take care. And again, enjoy Las Vegas. Thanks, Liel.

Grace: [00:36:08] You have a great day. Thanks.

Liel: [00:36:11] And if you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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