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S4 E12: Non-Obvious Thinking


ICP Logo

S4 E12: Non-Obvious Thinking





For more than a decade, Rohit Bhargava has astounded audiences at NASA, Disney, Schwab, Microsoft, SXSW, and hundreds of other companies with his distinctive non-obvious keynote speeches. He’s great at intertwining current events into his talks so that people can better understand the world today while also preparing to lead the future. Liel was able to go to Rohit’s keynote presentation at SXSW regarding his most recent book Non-Obvious Megatrends.

In his latest book Non-obvious megatrends, Rohit lists dozens of trends that people should be aware of to stay ahead of the curve. Some of these trends include the increasing popularity of experiential travel, the rise of artificial intelligence, and the growing importance of personal branding.

In this week’s episode Grace and Liel discuss 9 of the trends Rohit lists in his book, but most importantly, analyze how these trends influence the consumer-focused legal industry and how your law firms can stay ahead of the curve.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

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Liel: [00:00:00] Rawhide, Barraba defines megatrends as significant, irreversible social changes that will have a major impact on businesses and the world economy in the years to come. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond se Habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And this is in Camera podcast where we keep track of non-obvious megatrends. Welcome to our podcast, Private Label Marketing Conversations. Grace Welcome back. How are you today?

Grace: [00:00:59] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:00] Great. Grace, thank you so much for asking. And it’s April, April, finally. April.

Grace: [00:01:07] Yeah, and we happen to be doing it on April Fools.

Liel: [00:01:11] Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Do you do you have a prank or something for Grace? I really don’t. I’m so.

Grace: [00:01:17] I.

Liel: [00:01:17] Know.

Grace: [00:01:18] I’m a little weird with pranks, like, I don’t know why I come from a big family. So when it comes to pranks, I’m not a fan of them, I got to say.

Liel: [00:01:27] All right. Anyway, I think it’s appropriate for us to skip through the prank thing, because this is going to be published already a few days after April 1st. So we don’t want to be inappropriate. Grace But with that being said, we do have a very interesting conversation here. I think I’ve been thinking about this one pretty much since I saw the presentation at this year’s South by Southwest. And, you know, it’s one of those things that just the title of it non obvious megatrends right for this year for 2022 is is very catchy. Very, very catchy. So let me tell you first a little bit about who gave the presentation, who is this person? And then we can jump right into it. So, Grace, today we’re going to be talking about none of those megatrends for 2022. And I know it, it’s already first quarter of the year is already past us and so is it does it still make sense to be talking about trends for this current? Yes. Yes, it does. Grace. And particularly when you’re looking at some of these ones that have already been around for quite some time, but they’re just kind of like evolving. Right. And or going even deeper than they were initially when they first emerged as a trend. So we’ll look into that in just one moment. But first, let me tell you a little bit about who is the person who is identifying these megatrends. So his name is Rohit Bhargava, and he has a full career in the market here of 15 years working at different companies and such.

Liel: [00:02:52] And so he left that to become an entrepreneur, created three companies, right? And he said that he’s on a mission to inspire more non-obvious thinking in the world. And I like that whole idea of non-obvious thinking. He’s been he’s become he’s published several books every single year. As I’ve said, he publishes this book with the trends for the next coming year. And so that has earned him three time Wall Street Journal bestselling status. He has published, as I have said here, eight books on marketing. And his books are about trends and how to create a more diverse and inclusive world. So, you know, very high level thinking about all looking at to how we can use and benefit from these trends to become more human, more inclusive, more understanding. And so, as I’ve said, I really like the idea of going over these trends because they’re very applicable. Grace As you as you’ve already seen, even though they are very general, of course, they can be adapted and they can be personalized to fit pretty much any type of business. And obviously that will include law firms. So Grace. Without further ado, why don’t we go for some of the trends that Rohit is pointing out in this latest presentation and book that he published? And of course, we will have links here in the episode notes to his website and to his latest book. And so you can certainly explore and dive deeper into these topics that we’re going to be talking about here. So, Grace, what’s the first non-obvious mega-trend that we have to talk about?

Grace: [00:04:38] So I think I’m going to skip past the actual first one that they list. They’re like we talked about, which is the flux commerce, because that’s more about buying and selling products. And while we could delve into it a little bit, I think that the very first one that I, I want to talk about is the protective tech.

Liel: [00:04:56] And I tell you what, Grace, I was the one who said also here, let’s skip to flux commerce. But just as you were saying it, Grace, I think, you know, it is worth mentioning that it does make sense for law firms to rethink a little bit about how do they enable clients, particularly those that work on fees, whether those are hourly or per service or whatever. Right. And non contingency. And they do charge your clients. How are they actually allowing clients to pay them? Right. How do they how do they create the opportunity for them to also select the services that they need and such? So is it outrageous thing that, you know, can you be selling some of the most basic services that you’re providing online on your website and have an experience for slightly more more? Self-serve platform. I mean, it’s not outrageous. Grace Obviously, we already know and we’ve talked about this a lot as as a as an emerging trend. And it keeps on growing where there is legal tech companies coming up that are trying to find solutions for everything, starting from creating your trust, your will, powers of attorney, all of those different services that may seem more transactional. And they’re doing it for a flat fee. And you’re basically kind of like a TurboTax version of some of the most basic legal services. And so it does it does raise the question that I mean, can law firms without necessarily necessarily reducing themselves to the point of becoming that type of service provider, can they actually enhance the client experience by making it more approachable to a segments of their market that they will appreciate being able to go to the website and initiate some of the processes in there. And then just for the more essential stuff, have some conversation with the lawyer, with the attorney or one appointment, you know, like it’s not it’s not crazy. Grace what do you think?

Grace: [00:07:03] No. And you know what? You’re right. So the trend that they call it in here, he calls it flux, commerce and flux being ever changing. Right. And this is the ever changing world. There is nothing constant but change. So how we sell, buy and sell products, if anybody has noticed, honestly, it’s gone from licensing a single product to subscription models for almost everything you see. So how we sell our services, how we sell products has turned into a service model, has turned into a subscription model. So it isn’t crazy at all to think, how can I best serve my client by making it easier for them to obtain my service, whether it’s like you said, going online like these job forms and all these companies that are legal rocket and all of those technical things.

Liel: [00:07:55] Trust & Will Trust & Will allows you to create a trust, a will, a guardian.

Grace: [00:07:59] Exactly. So there are transactional things that people don’t necessarily need to speak to somebody until they’re ready to actually execute that item. Right. And so I agree with you. Yes. I think this quote unquote, new economy, it’s not really new, but it’s shifted to that. It’s anybody that’s embracing the idea of making it easier for people to buy their product, whether it’s a product or an actual service. In the case of law firms, they’re going to win. Right. Because the constant change in e-commerce and that’s how I see it, it’s e-commerce really. It’s electronic commerce and transactional relationships online with that little bit of humanity at the end. And that’s one of the trends he talks about actually a little later.

Liel: [00:08:46] Yeah, excellent Grace. So I’m glad that we touched on that one because it did turn out to be very relevant. But then please go on because you wanted to talk about protective tech.

Grace: [00:08:56] Yes. Well, you know how I feel about technology.

Liel: [00:08:59] Yeah.

Grace: [00:09:01] I’m such a tech nerd that when we talk about protective tech, I think people do understand to a degree that everything is listening to us nowadays. Right.

Liel: [00:09:11] Right.

Grace: [00:09:12] So there’s going to be potentially a trade off in the idea of having your health being protected and viewed on a regular basis. Protective tech can also mean something as simple as when you walk into a room, the light turns on. Right, right. We have all these we also have all these health trackers on our phones, right where I go for a walk and it tells me how many miles I’ve run. I’ve walked. It tells me my calorie caloric expenditures, it tells me all of that stuff. So to me, that’s all part and parcel of the protective tech trend. However, we do have to be very clear and understand that there’s going to be trade offs in terms of giving the information that we need to be able to get the information we need back. But it’s going to be monitoring almost everything about your life, right? So people do have to understand that your Google voice might be listening to you, your Alexa could be listening to you. And unless you make sure that you, you yourself put your own protections and permissions in certain things, the data is going to be out there and it may or may not be personally identifiable to you, but. Just understand that there’s going to be a trade off.

Liel: [00:10:28] Yeah, I think, you know, there’s a lot of technology here and now. Obviously, I’m thinking now I don’t know why, but my mind is going to personal injury law. And I think for better or for worse, this is going to make more transparency, the building of cases, right? It’s going to be more accurate to be able to get data about an injured person’s well-being. Right. And the expectation and the amount of information that’s going to be available out there to make these decisions is going to be more at reach. And I think it’s very important to take that into consideration. Other things that come to mind. Right. It’s that idea is what you were saying. How are we expecting technology to be there protecting us, whether it’s in the form of a camera, whether it’s through smart locks that gives us access that keep our house safe, sensors that keeps floods from happening and all of those things. Right. Like what other technology is out there that is helping us prevent or notify our loved ones in the event of an accident or something like that. I think, you know, you probably remember when we were at the SEO lawyer last year that I don’t even remember.

Liel: [00:11:40] I don’t think I think it’s a lot broader that they are doing dashcams, that they are branded for the law firm. So that offering technology in order to be better protected on the roads and have the right evidence and that sort of thing, that’s that kind of mentality, kind of like starting to talk about those things. Grace. I think it’s very, very important. I think, you know, these these this mindset of gathering data so you can better protect yourself in the event of something is a mindset that hasn’t been fully embraced in the messaging that law firms are putting out there about how they can better help their communities to be to be prepared and to be to be ready for when these type of occasions emerge. Right. I think, you know, in many cases, having a video to prove who’s at fault in an accident is just, you know, make things so much easier. So I understand not applicable in every single case, but for many it is. Right.

Grace: [00:12:38] Yeah. And there’s even apps. Right, that if you were in an accident. Yeah. It will know that you were in an accident and it can help you dial out 911. Yeah. So as a matter of fact, own did that. I have to tell you, my phone did that when I was in a car accident a couple of years ago. You know, everything was fine, but the car was totaled. My phone immediately dialed 911 and put it on. Do not disturb. It did not allow anybody to call me until 911 picked up the call.

Liel: [00:13:10] Yeah.

Grace: [00:13:11] It was very I mean, scary. Yeah, exactly. It was scary because I did not allow that permission that I knew of. But it was kind of comforting in a way, to know that 911 was immediately dispatched without having to do anything. So.

Liel: [00:13:29] Android. Android was watching for you, Grace.

Grace: [00:13:32] I guess so.

Liel: [00:13:35] All right, Grace, let’s move on to another one, and I’ll let you go with this one, because I know, you know, you’re probably going to love it just by the name of it. Yeah.

Grace: [00:13:44] So this next topic is data abundance. So there’s a lot of us, I’d say 99% of people, unless you’re in the data, it can get overwhelming, right? The amount of data that’s out there, the the kind of data that’s out there, the consistency or inconsistency of the data can be very overwhelming and hard to sift through to understand what you’re trying to achieve with that data. Sometimes it could be biased. It can be flawed. Right. Because I have my favorite saying and you may or may not agree with this little is garbage in, garbage out.

Liel: [00:14:25] I do. I agree with it.

Grace: [00:14:26] And I’m talking about data. When people input garbage data, you’re not going to get good analytic information from garbage data. So it’s all well and good to collect tons of information. But you and I have constantly told people on the podcast and constantly spoken about this where. What is your actual goal? What are you trying to achieve? And then collect the data to measure what you’re actually trying to measure. I mean, social media, smart devices, there’s so much information. They track everything from your IP address to your location, to your demographic data, to whatever it is. It’s great. Don’t get me wrong, I love data and I love looking at it and I love slicing and dicing because it’s a lot of fun for me. However, the implications for consumers, it’s less for them as it is for the companies that are trying to sift through this information and actually make it actionable. And we’re all about actionable, right? Liel like that’s what we talk about. So when we’re talking about data. Make sure that you have a way to sift through it, look at it, and also understand that if you have data and you’re collecting information, that you’re collecting it in the proper way. Right. We are law firms. We talk to law firms and even marketing companies. We all have to be compliant with TCP. The FCC can spam act a2pm. Et cetera. Et cetera. So, yeah, you’re side.

Liel: [00:16:02] Grace. Here’s how I see it. And this very much ties into Web 3// blockchain. People are now because of what has happened over the past years, because of all of these privacy violations by big tech companies, people have now generated more awareness and they’re more aware about A, how much personal information of them is exposed out there online, and B, the value of this data, the value of actually having access to their own personal information. And I do think people are going to reclaim that data and they’re going to become more selective about how they choose to share that with businesses or other social media platforms alike. And that’s, I think, where decentralized Internet is going to play a very important role. And that’s why I think people are slowly shifting towards the blockchain because they have full control of the data of the data. It’s not owned by a by another party, which is the case in which we’re all living now. And in most of those cases, you know, we’re talking about Google, we’re talking Facebook, we’re talking Amazon. And so now you’re going to be owning your your data. And I think people are going to be more gravitating toward that idea. I was watching Grace this past week.

Liel: [00:17:30] I’m not sure if you’ve heard of a new show on Showtime called Super Pumped, which basically tells the story about kind of like the rise and fall of the CEO of Uber. And it’s just mind-blowing crazy the privacy violations that were made on its users. And not too long ago, like five, six, seven years ago it’s is so it’s really not there is no more tolerance around for users towards tech companies that are doing this right now. We’re looking at it back in time. We’re very judgmental about it. And so I think the expectation now is for people to have more control over the data that they are sharing. But yes, from what you’re saying, from a business standpoint, absolutely. You want to make sure that you are using data that’s actually going to be useful for you. Right. Otherwise, it’s just overwhelming and you’re just not necessarily knowing how to use that information. It’s really, really mind-blowing. And I will say CRM, huge component of of understanding and putting data to use. Right. That’s a huge component. Having data. No, no. And no way. No way of actioning it. It’s useless. Right. So I was listening to another podcast earlier this week that was really talking a lot about different ways that bigger tech companies that have so much data about us could use it to upsell us, send us information about literally upsells at the end of the day, but upsell us by actually putting in front of us information and access to things that we care about, even if that’s for a fee, right? That’s Netflix.

Liel: [00:19:09] That’s Disney. Plus that Apple. Right. How much information they have about you. They know everything. They know everything. Your family, how many family members you have, what do they like? Where do you go? Where do you spend your time? Like it’s so easy for them to make suggestions that are going to be irrelevant to you, but they are not using data in the most efficient way. So, you know, if they’re not doing it, then you’re probably need to start asking questions as to how are you using the data that you have to really put it to the benefit and to enhance the client experience of your clients. So Grace. Let’s move on. Let’s see if we can feed a few a few more in here because this is taking quite some time. I think we’re we’re enjoying a lot talking about these different trends.

Grace: [00:19:59] So I kind of want to I do want to talk about the the next one. And then I think we can skip some of the the latter ones. But you’ll tell me. So purposeful profit. I think that’s a really, really great topic because I mean, law firms, right? I mean, who is trying to help people? Law firms are always trying to help people. And most I’d say almost all lawyers that I have known went into law school to help. Right. That’s the whole point of them becoming a lawyer. So this trend of purposeful profit is basically you can’t just slap a label on some kind of cause and then claim that you care. People don’t believe it anymore. Right. Yeah. You have to actually act. And not only from that perspective, but we’ve talked about this too, and that is in the hiring side of things. If the employee doesn’t believe that you believe in your cause. Yeah, totally. They don’t want to work for you.

Liel: [00:21:00] Yeah.

Grace: [00:21:02] So I mean, I think that covers it completely. But, you know, obviously add your $0.02. But that’s what it is. That’s purposeful profit. People understand you are telling the truth or not, and they can tell by your actual actions as a business, as a corporation.

Liel: [00:21:16] I like that you talk about that as well also from an internal standpoint, because it’s not just kind of like the show that you put out there to your community or to the organizations that you claim to support. But I think that needs to start from within. Right. And, you know, the the biggest supporters of the causes and what you stand for should be your your team. So I agree with the way that you explain that.

Grace: [00:21:44] That’s perfect. It’s a big deal to us. You know, our law firm in particular, Ed Ed Lake, he has an autistic daughter. And I happened to have tutored autistic and children with special needs when I was younger in high school. And that was part of my community service for the Florida Bright Futures Program. They require you to do community service, but I did over 500 hours because to me that was a cause that was important to me to help these kids. To him, it’s important to him to help these kids. So as a company, we all believe in that same exact helping children, and we believe in helping what’s going on in the real causes of the world for us, which is what’s going on with Ukraine. You know, the Don Warley party and the party that we’re going to be at, it’s all about supporting.

Liel: [00:22:36] That’s right. So, yeah, I’m so I’m so glad you’re bringing that up. I was really, really, really touched when I saw that great.

Grace: [00:22:42] Move because it means something to us, like these causes actually have a true purpose and we believe in what we’re putting out there. And so as a team, as a company, as employees of Affirm, we believe the same thing that he does and we’re all moving towards the same path. So profit with cause and true cause.

Liel: [00:23:02] Love it, grace. Love it. So, Grace, you’re right. I mean, there are a few here. You know, I think attention, well, cannot be cannot be said enough. We’re overwhelmed with information. We don’t know what to see and what to look at first. And there is a scarcity here of attention. And so, you know, this doesn’t stop being a trend that we need to acknowledge and keep in mind and understand that people are bombarded with thousands of messages every single day. And so understanding where do you feed and what are you doing to use your your your few seconds of attention that you’re getting from your market, from your audience is important. I will bundle in here next to one which is human mode and revivalism, Grace and I. The reason why I’m bundling them up is because revivalism is kind of like nostalgia for the old days, like for times where things were simpler, there was not so many options, not so much technology. And we we’re looking we’re yearning back to those days, right? That that exists. That sentiment is out there and human mode. At the same time, I think in particularly now as we’re having this conversation still within our world that is influenced by a pandemic. There is still that same yearning for for personal connection, for being in front of people. Right. And so I think the way that we are seeing this in our industry, the way the way that we are romanticizing revivalism, is by being face to face, right? Being able to weather it, that means meeting up in person with clients, whether that is attending events, parties, conferences, it doesn’t really matter what, but it’s being able to do things in in person, in a community.

Liel: [00:25:02] And I you know, I think that sentiment exists not just in this industry, but pretty much everywhere. And it’s also there in your in your clients, in the way your clients feel about it, because their lives have also been disrupted and they’ve also had to adjust and do things differently. And I really like, you know, just going back to some of the ideas that we’ve heard about how some law firms do community outreach and client appreciation and that sort of thing. And, you know, law firms that are throwing parties for their clients, for their existing clients, like for just anyone who’s been a client of the law firm, is invited once or twice a year. These things are so much fun. Grace And it’s, you know, a way of just staying staying a community and being connected and getting that. Is there any other way, Grace, That you see, revival is kind of like showing up in the legal world, like maybe more in the way that services are being delivered or such? Because there are I just I’m I’m blank. I’m not thinking about beyond, right being in person with people. I’m still in the bubble of that.

Grace: [00:26:09] You know. I know. Because it’s been so long. Right. And even though it’s we’ve started coming back to normal kind of almost normal way of going to all these conferences every month like we used to, there’s still the pandemic. So, yes, I do see this human mode. It’s really interesting, actually, because while they people would were accepting of chat messages and text messages, I have seen a reversal on that where people want phone calls again. Where before they would accept the text communication. And it could be partially a generational thing, but I have noticed that. The older demographic, depending on what case type we’re talking about, wants to go back to the phone calls. And if I can’t meet you in your office, because that still is a little bit of a flux situation. Right. Particularly in mass torts they want to see you on a Zoom meeting, at least on a video to see your face. So even if you can’t meet them in person, that’s the first question they ask. Can I meet you in person now if they can’t.

Liel: [00:27:27] Right? Yeah. Oh, my God. Your.

Grace: [00:27:29] No, you’re.

Liel: [00:27:30] Absolutely. You’re absolutely. Well, you know, in our agency, most of the work we do is marketing to Spanish speakers. Latinos always, always, always preferred in-person meetings, always. And then during the pandemic, it was a thing that they’ve just had to adapt, right? There were no options. But now, you know, the things are starting to get back to normal, or at least we’re being told that they’re starting to go back to normal. People want to meet in person that like it’s not you know, there is still an understanding that it’s more convenient to do things through a conference call over Zoom, but that doesn’t mean that they prefer doing it that way. Right. And so I do think it’s very important and I do mention this to to to prospect clients or people to reach out to us is don’t assume that people are willing to stay in the virtual world permanently because many people are still preferring to meet in person. They’re still preferring to go the office. That personal connection is very important and it makes sense us, right? Because we want to build we want to build trust. And for some people, they need that in-person connection to really feel that that this is something that’s going to work out for them.

Grace: [00:28:47] So I’ve even taken to sending so if I send text messages to somebody, I’ve taken to sending my bitmoji so that at least they see me, right? Even though right. So if they’ve never met me, if they’ve never we’ve never really even spoken on the phone and we communicate primarily by text. I’ve started sending emojis and that I know it’s not me, it’s not my face, but it definitely helps them put at least somewhat of a face to a name until we’re able to see each other in person.

Liel: [00:29:18] Yeah, absolutely. Grace. Absolutely. But that is a very, very, very good point. Grace Let’s move on to the last two that we’re going to be talking here. We’re covering here, nine of them, by the way, there are more, right? You can see more of those in the book that we’re covering here, nine in this episode. And the next one, it’s so important. It’s instant knowledge, right? Grace We all want to become masters of things in seconds, right? We want to watch a YouTube video and know everything that we need to know about it. And then it’s not just that. We then go and comment and make recommendations and and have very elaborate opinions about things. That’s kind of like how how we’ve evolved to treat knowledge and the reality Grace is that this is not feasible. You cannot become an expert of things just by digesting quick bite sized bits of information online. And what’s at stake here is really, you know, craftsmanship, right? Really having that in-depth knowledge and understanding of things. And so what happens here, Grace, it’s a good wake up call for lawyers that they need to stand their ground. Right. And again, going back to that situation where we’re facing that, there is some fast law solutions online, do it yourself sort of things.

Liel: [00:30:50] Well, you know, you can take that road, road, but then you’re not getting all of the extra value that comes when you have an expert involved in the process. Right. But with that being said, this is another really good way of thinking about how do you create your content, particularly for social media platforms, because people do want to know they they want knowledge, they want to be educated, but they also want it to be very fast and very efficient. And it needs to be, as I’ve said, bite sized pieces of information, snippets. Snippets, totally so. I mean, great opportunity to remind your market and your audience that it takes more than just reading a few blog posts, watching a few videos, or going and asking and commenting on blogs to really learn how to make the most out of a case. But also, you don’t want to antagonize your audience by not giving them any of the information that they want. You absolutely want to feed them enough information, but for them to also understand that they’re are going to be better off by having you on their side. Right. So you want to build trust and authority, but you also want to give them information so that they can make better decisions.

Grace: [00:32:17] Yeah. I mean, nowadays everyone’s an informed consumer, right? That’s what people want. Like they want to digest data. They want to understand what they’re buying, whether it’s a service, a product, whatever it is we go look, probably on average, I think they say it’s like on average 16 different places, whether it’s between reviews, pictures, social media, whatever. These are all these different places that we do research to determine if we want to buy.

Liel: [00:32:44] And that isn’t the case is when you’re deciding to buy something. But there is also a lot of, you know, we want to become the the experts of the thing that we’re going to be doing right. And I think a great example of that is the stock market and things like GameStop last year and all of those things. Right. These are people who’ve just took on online, started reading information here and they’re making calls. And I’m not saying that there is it’s a bad thing. Grace But the reality is that it can also turn out to be something costly, either monetary or in some other shape or form.

Grace: [00:33:21] So that’s why you hire a lawyer.

Liel: [00:33:23] Expertise? Yeah, totally. Expertise or a financial advisor or a doctor, right? I mean, that’s why you’re not diagnosing yourself medication or conditions, because you do not have always all of the knowledge and all of the knowhow and expertise. You need an expert advice. You need the input of an expert Grace. So instant knowledge, it’s we’re hungry to know. But at the same time we need to remind ourselves that there is 100% need of expertise. Grace Let’s move on to the last one we’re going to be talking here, and that’s engendering character. Explain.

Grace: [00:34:02] Yes. So I think the perfect explanation is probably what happened yesterday with Disney. So Disney actually Disney World in Orlando, Florida, took out the language of boys and girls. And this is on trend with the big trend of engendering, and that is to traditional boy, girl, male, female. And the pronouns that we’re, I guess you would say, used to seeing and hearing have become much more fluid and people self-identify differently than they ever used to. And so they them he she and self-identification of of male or female is not the way it used to be. And because of that, we have to really. Understand that. As a brand, as a company, as a firm, as whoever you are and what you stand for. Needs to be an understanding of this type of trend. Why? Right. Because it is while it’s controversial, regardless of whether you believe something is controversial or not, whether you believe or don’t believe in. He or she. They them is regardless, regardless and regardless. It’s not even a word, but it’s irregardless. And then the reason I say that is because this is a trend. And it’s not just a trend. It is a worldview that you need to be aware of and you need to be sensitive to it. So whether you believe in it or not, you need to understand that this is something that is important to everybody. And you know, it is fundamental to every culture I’ve ever seen. So that’s why I said, well, before we even started, I’m like, I don’t know if we want to talk about this or not because it is controversial, but how do you stay away from controversial subjects?

Liel: [00:36:08] No, Grace. You have to talk about these things. And quite honestly, it’s only controversial if you’re a moron. Honestly, at the end of the day, if you cannot understand that identities and it’s personal, yes, each person can claim for their own and in the way that they want to claim it, then, you know, it just it’s a bigger problem than just pronouns and that sort of things. I 100% think is that that it’s an important thing that you need to look in your organization at all levels. And it really it should be a policy of inclusion and that’s it. There just needs to be inclusion for for everyone.

Grace: [00:36:48] Perfectly said, it’s about inclusion.

Liel: [00:36:51] Whichever shape or form do they come to you? I don’t think there are many ways around talking about this.

Grace: [00:36:57] Right? Yeah. Whatever you believe is what you believe. And that’s between you and your beliefs. Yeah.

Liel: [00:37:02] Yeah, exactly. Grace. Exactly. So, Grace, Look, we went here through nine megatrends, none of those megatrends. And it’s really interesting, right? Like just to close up on this and start with our, with our takeaways. It’s interesting because when, when you hear the name Non-obvious, you think, well, actually all of these things we do here and we talk about them quite frequently. But when you stop and think and look at them in depth, yes, they are everywhere in the air and stuff, but we’re not necessarily reflecting on them that much. We’re just kind of like going with the flow. And it’s important. Like the whole idea of of taking a time to evaluate these these things and understand them helps you to better. As we were saying here, take a stance, make decisions and leverage opportunities that that may exist. Right. Understand better what are the expectations? What is that happening in the market and how you can better adapt to that? Grace. So let’s bring it down to our three usual takeaways.

Grace: [00:38:09] So the first takeaway for me would be, regardless of whether you’re a product or service device, whatever you might be doing, understand that commerce and e-commerce is a fluid situation and. Including with protective tech. However, you gather data from your people, including in how you sell your service as a lawyer, it can be done in a way that makes sense with the trends, make sense with how your people want to actually purchase the subscription or service from you, whether you’re an estate lawyer or other type of lawyer. You can craft it so that it’s in the format that your people want. And the way to do that is using flux, commerce and understanding that e-commerce is not a static situation.

Liel: [00:38:56] I’m going to I’m going to say articulate in one word. Number two, linking together human mode revivalism. Find the right balance. Technology is wonderful, automation is wonderful, but make sure that you have the right balance. So do you meet both needs? You want to be efficient and productive for both your team and your clients, but you also want to be human. And you also want to have a more personal connection with your team and with your clients and with your community. So find the right balance. Do not lean more into one or the other just because it’s convenient. At a certain point, you want to make sure that you are also looking at things more holistically and are aware, particularly looking at more of the human side of things, the real life person sort of thing, how much that is also important. I know this past couple of years there have been all about being efficient, being remote, being adaptable, but that did not necessarily took away from us permanently our desire to also have a human connection with people. So just keep those things in balance. We have one last takeaway. Grace, of course, unless you want to add something to the second one.

Grace: [00:40:11] No, I think, you know, human mode, you covered it really, because it all has to do with being there for your client in the way they want to communicate with you, not the way you want to communicate with them.

Liel: [00:40:21] Yep, 100%, as you were saying, Grace, if you’ve been relying very heavily in just text messaging, double check, because maybe people are now favoring more phone calls. They want to have real person answering those phone calls and such. So be in touch with what the market wants, what they’re asking for.

Grace: [00:40:37] So for me, takeaway number three has to do with the purposeful profit because I feel like it does kind of tie in to even the Engendering and some of the other things that we’re talking about. If you want the attention of your audience, if you care, which I know you do. Right. I mean, as lawyers, the reason you got into it was because you care. Do everything you do with a cause and a purpose and truly stand behind it. And that is the only way that you’re going to affect change in your community is standing behind the cause that you believe in. That’s my takeaway number three.

Liel: [00:41:14] Well said. Couldn’t have said that better. Grace. So, Grace, thank you so much for another great conversation. And we’ll be back next week.

Grace: [00:41:23] Next week.

Liel: [00:41:27] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your coworkers, leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com, We’ll see you next week.

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