In this bonus episode, Grace and Liel do a rundown of the legal digital marketing workshop that took place at this year’s Trial Lawyers Summit in Miami Florida on Sunday, January 19.

Google My Business, Pay Per Click, Social Media, Content Marketing and Intake are among the topics reviewed from the panel talks, which included presentations from the following voices in legal marketing:

National Trial Lawyers

Trial Lawyers Summit

Harlan Schillinger

Seth Price

Andy Simpson

David Brenton

Vanessa Soto

Kendall Knecht

Jay Ruane

Michael Mogill

Joe Devine

Nalini Prasad

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Transcript

Liel: [00:00:00] Every year in Miami, a unique gathering of America’s most outstanding civil plantiff and criminal defense lawyers takes place. Welcome to the Trial Lawyers Summit on this bonus episode, we will share everything that went down on the digital marketing panel at the this year’s National Trial Lawyers event. I’m Lee Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and this is In Camera Podcast where we keep an ear to the ground for all legal marketing trends.

Liel: [00:01:01] Welcome to Incamera Private Legal Marketing Conversations. And today we are joined by our co-host, Grace Montealegre. Grace. How are you today?

Grace: [00:01:11] Good. How are you, Liel? I’m doing great.

Liel: [00:01:13] And today, a very, very special day, Grace, because we are recording this episode live from the Trial Lawyers Summit.The national trial lawyers yearly gathering in Miami Beach in your life at the low, so pale in grace. We’re so excited for you to tell us for those who could not attend. What is it that’s happening? What is it that we need to know about the trial lawyers summit event this year? And what what are the conversations that people are having there? So, Grace, to get us started, why don’t you tell us a little bit as to where exactly you are?

Grace: [00:01:45] So like Liel said, it is on Miami Beach. I am actually in the Loews Hotel on 16th and Collins, and it’s taking place in the exhibit hall. And the sessions are right next to the exhibit hall. I am physically located on the third floor at the moment with the exhibit hall below me and to the left. So you might be hearing some funky noise in the background. Hopefully not. But if you are, this is why.

Liel: [00:02:10] Excellent. Grace. And I think we can all make a little sacrifice just in order to get all of the insights of the trial lawyer summit as fast as they are actually happening. So, Grace, we know that the event kicked off Sunday afternoon with a panel on marketing. So, Grace, what happened there? What conversations took place during these workshops – panel?

Grace: [00:02:38] So as Liel said, it did kick off on Sunday. And although they weren’t Exhibit hall hours on Sunday. There was a session starting on Sunday. There was one in the morning. But the one in the afternoon is the one that’s of interest to all of us on this podcast specifically. Starting at 1:00 o’clock, we had a Harlan Schillinger speaking about Google and that was the start of the sessions as a whole. And so his title actually was what Mr. Google and everyone else wants to know to succeed. So for those of you who may or may not know Harlan, hopefully you do if you are listening to this, because he’s been in the industry for a very long time, he’s very well known and very well respected as he should be, because he is involved in quite a few things. And so what he discussed about Google and what everybody is supposed to know to succeed on Google, it boils down to the fact that you need Google, you have to use Google and you need to play nice with Google. And what does that mean? You need to write and create things for search intent. It’s all about the user. That’s all he cares about. That’s all Google cares about. And that’s all Harlan was trying to make you understand, is that Google cares about the search intent about the searcher, about the real content and how it’s helping you or not.

Liel: [00:03:59] I can totally see that. Grace. And I think over the past few months, we’ve been hearing more and more and more of these conversations being introduced, right? So it’s kind of like we’re transitioning and most of law firms are starting to become more aware that a SEO is not a technical implementation that you perform once on your website and then delivers results consistently, forever and ever. It’s more about like how Google constantly evolves and how us marketeers and business owners and law firms need to adapt to fulfill those new user centred behaviors that Google is also adapting to. And so by actually playing by Google rules, we’re actually making ourselves more relevant to users and therefore increasing the chances to become their first choice for whenever they’re searching for something that relates to what we do, practice areas that the law firm cares about. Is that kind of like the message that was delivered?

Grace: [00:05:03] I think that’s a big part of it, at least an underlying part of the message, to tell you the truth. Because, I mean, he’s just like his title says what Mr. Google and everyone else wants to know to succeed. So is there a formula? Is there a plan? Of course there is. Google tells you what it is. And Harlan went ahead and let everybody know, kind of reminded them if or maybe it’s for the first time they’ve heard this. I don’t know. You know, considering what you and I are in marketing, this is something that we’re used to hearing. We know Google is number one, but not every attorney knows that. And that’s part of the reason to come to national trial lawyers, is to hear something maybe for the first time. And if you haven’t or haven’t be reinforced, sort of, OK, I knew Google was important. And now Harland is telling me these are the things that I need to know to succeed. And Google tells you the same thing. Just maybe it’s easier or more understanding from Harlan. And I feel like he did a really great job in the presentation, and I think it will help a lot of people. Is quite well attended.

Liel: [00:06:02] Sounds like it was fantastic. Grace. And so I’m just a little bit curious here. Was the focus 100 percent put up on organic Google search or was it like all in, like a combination, whether you’re using Google paid or you’re using Google as an organic search platform? Was there any differentiation there was just kind of like broad and left to the open. I mean, it was just an introduction, right? So I’m assuming it was just like more leaning towards a broad side of things.

Grace: [00:06:29] Exactly. It was a much more broad conversation because the other tracks and the other sessions that lead up to them or excuse me, they’re after Harlan’s, they were actually very well put together. Kind of one led to the next, which led to the next which led to the end a conversation on that panel. And it was it was great. I mean, they gave it was a five minute intro from Harlan just to explain. This is what Google and everyone needs to know. He was a moderator and one of the moderators, along with Seth Price, of Price-Benowitz. And so, you know, between the two of them, they were able to lead the conversation down a path that made sense, in my opinion, for everybody in attendance. And as as was evidence, again, in my opinion, by the amount of people that not only went but stayed throughout the entire session and there were no breaks, it went from 1 to 5 p.m. on Sunday. And this is Miami, guys.

Liel: [00:07:25] I love that Grace . You know what? Every time that I, you know, there is the first session on a Sunday; you kind of like think that a lot of people are going to skip it. But it warms my heart whenever that’s the situation and you’re walking through a room and there is a full house and just people committed to it, right? And the fact is that, like, if you don’t care enough to actually attend and listen and hear other people who are going through the same struggles that you are and that they’re trying to learn and implement and staying kind of like up to date with the latest trends and potentially find a way to stay a step ahead. You know, in this environment, in this world, in this competitive digital world that we’re living. It’s going to be very hard to stand out. And so it’s very reassuring, right, when you hear and when you see that there’s been a big change in attitudes towards digital marketing, legal marketing in general, and people are actually embracing the opportunity to learn and to attend and continue getting themselves informed.

Liel: [00:08:30] So great Grace. What happened after? We’ve been analyzing for ten minutes Harlan’s opening statement of five minutes. So let’s move on to the actual conversations, and panels.

Grace: [00:08:45] Ok. So that actually leads perfectly into the next conversation that was had by an individual named Andy Simpson. So Andy Simpson spoke about something that Liel and I have actually probably discussed, maybe not to death, but quite a bit. Is Google my business and local search. So, of course, they discussed everything they had to do with Google my business and Google my business, if you might recall. Hopefully you do from one of our previous sessions is the fact that you need to be on GMB. That’s the acronym for Google My Business. If you are not, you are literally lost out on every single possible local search pack type of help that you could be getting. If you are not in the local search, if you’re not on a Google my business, if you don’t have a location tied to it, you’re in big, big trouble. And then people forget some of the details of going into Google My Business and some of these things that are very simple to do. They forget as well. And that’s kind of what Andy was discussing was, you know, you need to go on Google my business. You need to use all the tools that you have there. Use your review links and posts there and, of course, do not forget about local search. I mean, if you can be in that three pack just by having great reviews and having a process for those reviews, then you’re ahead of the game compared to everyone else. So I know what we went over, specifically a five minute conversation from Harlan, but it was because as the moderator, he really set the tone for everything. And then Andy brought it home by discussing Google my business and local search.

Liel: [00:10:20] And that’s and that’s one thing that I think, you know, as you’ve said, we’ve talked about it and the level of awareness continues to increase is like people now are more aware that Google my business is not just about, you know, creating a listing for your business in terms of your name, your telephone number, your address and your opening hours, but also obviously their reviews, which is a massive component. And now even more the capabilities that it’s giving you to further engage with your local market by the use of question and answers posts and opening you to a whole new level of opportunities that could actually, as you very well said, Grace increase your relevancy for local search. Right? And so that’s I think why at the beginning of our first episode, the one about digital marketing, we we brought up the notion that, you know, if you just have a random website, you should put up all of your bets on Google my business, right? Because implementing an SEO strategy on your website may not be an easy solution for you, but you stand a chance on Google my business. So play your cards in the best possible way that you can and that’s what I’m hearing, that it’s the conversation that was had with Andy Simpson. So moving on.

Grace: [00:11:38] So that then led into PPC, right? Pay Per Click, for those of you who don’t know PPC or don’t quite understand what that means. That’s means paying for every click on an ad. OK, so pay per click. And they discussed David Brenton was the individual who discussed scaling PPC, buying your way to the top of page one tips and tricks to scale your PPC without breaking the bank. OK, so guys, this is super important to understand. The reason they put Google my business and local search before scaling PPC is because you need to have all of these things in place before you start throwing money at it. So to scale and part of the tips and tricks to scale your PPC without breaking the bank is to have all the things you need in place. Right. Google my business, local search needs to be handled and then after this, there’s actually a perfect conversation about intake. So as we’ve discussed many, many times before in the organic marketing, in paid marketing, whatever you decide to do, wherever you decide to go with it, you must have everything in place before you start throwing money at it. So that was number one, right, in scaling PPC, in buying your way to the top tips and tricks, make sure you have everything placed where you need to, landing pages, et cetera, et cetera. And then you can start having, you know, some tips and tricks to not go crazy on certain dollar amounts, look for long tailed phrases, look for, you know, specific areas that, you know, are your target market and just some general ideas on how to handle PPC without spending thousands and thousands and even millions in some cases. So I know that you like the Morgan and Morgans of the world, they have a massive PPC budget, a massive digital marketing budget. And David Brenton was trying to make sure that you guys have a chance, because if you’re not a Morgan and Morgan or you’re not, you know, a massive firm like Anidjar & Levine, which is located here in Florida where I’m from, then you may not have that budget. So how do you do it? Well, David helped you kind of understand that you don’t need a massive budget to do certain things. Now, of course, if you’re going after car accidents in New York, good luck. Right. So that’s just one of those things that he was also kind of mentioning and letting you know is, you know, there’s tips in there, tricks, you know, but of course, there are certain phrases, there are certain things that unless you have a big amount of money, you’re not going to be able to do so stick to these things, do these things that you do well, kind of focus on the areas that are of interest and that there’s not a lot of competition. And you can check all of that out on Google, like Google will allow you to see how much a pay per click would cost you, how much a campaign would cost you, how much even specific phrases will cost you. And so David kind of explained in a way for a lot of the people here and the lawyers here, hey, guys, try it. You can do this, too. You don’t need a lot of money to try these different things. You can do testing. You can try with small amount of money and certain budgets. So I feel like, you know, it was a perfect segway to the initial Google My Business and Local Search by Andy. David Breton brought home scaling your PPC campaign without killing yourself and spending too much money.

Liel: [00:15:05] I really like half of what you were saying and I kind of like question the other half. I would have loved to be on that stage debating some of those ideas, Grace. So let me first tell you about what I’m listening that I do like. And then let me finish up by kind of questioning some of the of the other things that were said. So one hundred percent right. Google gives you all the information you want. Google wants you to be able to make good decisions and know how to approach your particular market. So there is keyword research planners and other tools that can let you gauge what’s the search volume, what’s the average cost per click. And so that gives you a good understanding as to how to build your budget and what you can aim for. Now, where I kind of a little bit struggle is the idea that, you know what, I was able to kind of gather up this information.

Liel: [00:15:55] Now, let me go and start a campaign kind of like on my own, because just researching that information, it’s part of the equation. Now, building the actual campaign, configuring it, writing your ads, making sure that you’re sending them to the right, URLs, the composition of your URLs your landing page experience, the match type for your keywords that you’re targeting, right? And then your negative keyword list is more important than anything else. And so, you know, it’s kind of like jumping into something, just knowing part of the information that you need to know. But then all the technical aspects of it, not necessarily knowing it. So what I’m questioning is like, yes, test that out. Absolutely. I agree with that idea. The only thing that I would kind of challenge the notion is do it on yourself. I would say no. Like, if you’re gonna do the research and then go and do it on yourself without having had any experience, you might as well go and invest on other kinds of marketing where you actually do have experience managing it on your own or where you can get professional help in implementing it. What I think it would be fantastic is if you’re going to go into a pay per click. Yes, do your homework study. So the moment that you sit down at a table with the agency or the pay per click management that you’re hiring, you can have some leverage into the conversation. So that’s that’s the only thing. I wasn’t there in the room. Maybe that’s that was part of the message. But that’s where I’m coming to. Like, you wouldn’t fix a leak in your home if you don’t know how to do it. You’re gonna end up causing more damage. And at the end, you’re gonna have to bring a professional and you’re gonna end up spending more money than you would have if you would have brought somebody from the very beginning. I think has the same effect when it comes down to Pay Per Click managed by another person. Grace I mean, am I crazy here?

Grace: [00:17:42] Not at all. Not even a little bit. So maybe I think it would have been probably better to explain who David Branton is. So he is coming from that exact position. He’s just giving them tools to understand that they don’t have to kill themselves or break the bank. But of course, you need to give it to the experts, right? Because if not, you are throwing good money after bad. And that’s not going to help you any. Right. So David Renton, is the president a blue shark digital and he was the chief marketing officer at Price-Benowitz, so he was and is a marketing person. So that’s where he’s coming from. And it was his message, too, and his intention to let you know these are things you can do, but you need to come to us. Right. He’s again, like he’s part of Blue Shark Digital and he does SEO and and pretty much all of the stuff that we’re discussing in digital marketing. So that’s what I completely agree with you. And I’m sure that that was his intent as well. And that’s how I took it, was that these are just some tips and tricks to help you out a little bit. But to implement it, you need a professional, you know, leave it to the professionals guys, because, you know, you want to consider the fact that you want to do the business of law. This is what you’re here for. You’re here to learn about it. Of course, you need to learn about it because it’s your business, right?

Liel: [00:18:58] Yes. And that’s that’s exactly what I like, what we were all up for. And that’s why we created these podcast, because we feel that attorneys and everyone involved with the law firm needs to have a certain level of knowledge on legal marketing, digital marketing, traditional marketing, so they can actually have a say and get the results that they want from their investments. And so you definitely have to educate yourself. I think it’s fantastic that this kind of information is being shared out. And so I’m looking forward. What was the next conversation about?

Grace: [00:19:30] So the next conversation and I think maybe I’ll start with the person that spoke about it. Is Vanessa Sodo of Lerner and Rowe Injury attorneys based out of Chicago. She is the intake manager for Lerner and Rowe. So the next conversation specifically was on mastering intake to increase conversions from two people in the trenches. So it was Vanessa Sodo and Kendall Nekt. So they discussed specifically building a strong, proven process to ensure more leads become clients. Guys, if you don’t remember how many times Liel and I have specifically discussed a process, process, process and building a strong proven process for intake. So you can increase your conversions. I’m sorry. You go back and listen, please. Because that’s what their message was. So Vanessa and Kendall were specifically saying, you know, these are the things that you need to do. You must put in a good process. And this is the only way, literally the only way to get conversions. You need to master the intake process, have that process down, written down. Everyone understands it. Everyone’s been trained on it. Everyone’s been shown how to do this. She’s the intake manager, you know. But as specifically as intake manager at Learner Rowe and she comes from experience in-house, this is what she’s telling you you must do, because otherwise you’re left in the dark, you have no idea where are your conversions, where they went, what happened. So strong proven process to ensure more leads become clients. Really her title says it all. Honestly, she did very clearly discuss that. She very clearly told you what you needed to do. Building process. Make sure it works and train everybody. That was a message.

Liel: [00:21:16] I like that that. And it sounds like it was a great conversation on intake. Grace, what else do we have on that?

Grace: [00:21:24] So we actually had three or four more. The other few ones, one specifically. The very next one is ethically navigating the social media world like a pro, Jay Reign. Hopefully I’m pronouncing that correctly, boosting with purpose and simplifying branding on social media through engaging content. So basically, what does that mean? Content, content content, guys, right? And if it’s on social media, it needs to be not spray and pray. It’s engaged conversation on social media. Do it ethically, do it in a way that is providing service to people and not solicitation, which we all know you’re not allowed to do, of course. But here’s an individual. Jay, specifically telling you, including ethics, you need to always, no matter what, in every point in time, whether it’s your marketing person with whoever it is that’s handling your social media needs to think like you ethically and engage ethically in the way that is actually helping people. That’s it.

Liel: [00:22:26] Grace, I love ethics. I love whenever we need to be reminded of things that may come across as unethical or that are actually unethical. It’s good to be reminded about what is the actual correct and best practice way of doing things. And so I think a conversation like that is always welcome. And I definitely think that it should be the topic for some of the conversations that we’re going to be having here, not just for how to do it in social media, but how to do it in general across different platforms. What other things were shared during these intense panel on marketing?

Grace: [00:23:01] So the next panel was specifically on dominating the social media video scene and that was represented by Michael Moghul. So for those of you don’t know. Michael, Michael is the head of Crisp and Crisp has been out for a couple of years now, and what they do is they do video. So he’s uniquely qualified to explain and tell you specifically how to connect through visual storytelling to get high value cases. So think about yourself. And this is kind of what he wanted everyone to understand is that, you know, we connect to other people through visuals. A lot of times, you know, audio’s nice, blogs, written stuff is nice, but when you see a person and you have a story that you’re telling, that’s where the high value cases should come in. Why? Because you’re connecting. Right? You’re connecting through video. And when a person feels like they can see you. I apologize, guys. You know, he’s going on behind me. And when they can see you and when they see a story, it’s about the story. When you have a story, tell it. And that’s the most important thing.

Liel: [00:24:07] I agree. Crisp does beautiful storytelling and they capture it in a very characteristically way. So I actually believe I’ve heard that talk before on order marketing conferences recently. And it’s definitely an interesting one. I think we’ve come up to the closing talk for that day. Am I correct, Grace?

Grace: [00:24:29] No. There there was one in between, by Joe Divine, for search engine. It actually has a really funny title that fits in perfectly with our conversation. It’s called Don’t F It Up. It’s actually a company motto here. There’s someone’s company that has that is a motto on the back of their t shirts. It’s really funny. It says a law firms mistakes, common mistakes, assumptions and missed opportunities. So he went over quite a few things, you know, being in a search engine land and dealing with a SEO and all of that, I’m sure. And I know Joe, Joe’s a great guy. He’s been in this for a very long time. And so he is able to tell you the most anecdotal, funny kind of stories and explain to you guys, like there’s some serious, simple mistakes that you don’t need to keep doing. You shouldn’t keep doing.

Liel: [00:25:19] Share an example. You cannot talk about mistakes that people are making and then not mention what the mistakes are.

Grace: [00:25:30] So since he does SEO and also does handle some intake stuff, it’s a lot of the stuff that you and I talked about over and over. Right. It’s answering the phone properly with the firm’s name. It’s answering a call to action that somebody sent in the form within five minutes.

Grace: [00:25:49] I mean, it’s all of those simple, simple things that you and have been covering.

Liel: [00:25:54] I mean, Grace, honestly, the whole notion that people are travelling all the way down to Florida, spending thousands of dollars on admission tickets and lodging and meals, just to hear at times that you need to answer the telephone right. It’s crazy, but that’s what it is. Right? As much as you need to be told about the latest trends in your practice areas in business law, you also need to be reminded of the basics. And so it’s just as simple as that. There are certain things that you just cannot get wrong. And that’s one of them. And I think it’ll continue to come up every single time. So answer the phone properly.

Grace: [00:26:42] It has to, it has to come up every time. Why? Because you’re reminded. Guess what? This is the lifeblood of your firm. Answer that phone. Answer it properly. Be polite. I mean, really, it’s not that hard, but it is, like people just seem to forget these things. And so it was kind of cool hearing it from Joe because Joe’s great at it. And he’s a really funny speaker. And so, you know, I can tell I know who he is.

Liel: [00:27:05] We need to get Joe on the show.

Grace: [00:27:07] We will, we will I’m going to actually try and talk to him, see if I can do an interview with him. He happens to be here, so I’m sure I can nail him down to an interview.We’ll get him on here.

Liel: [00:27:17] And he’s local. He’s my neighbor here in Austin, so I’m sure we can have a great time having a conversation with Joe. All right. So now we’re brought up to the last talk of that panel. Let’s hear it.

Grace: [00:27:30] So the last talk was by Nalini Prasad. She runs Blue Shark Digital with Seth Price-Benowitz. And Seth Price is a great attorney who also owns a marketing company. He again, his name is Seth Price. He’s up Price-Benowitz and Nalini, runs the Blue Shark digital component. What was she discussing? She decided to discuss and let everybody know. Here’s a little sneak peek of SEO in 2020. You know, there’s new algorithms, updates on BART and some of these other Google updates that have happened. So she wanted to let you know what’s changed in the SEO world in 2019 and then kind of what’s to come in 2020. Hers was a very in-depth conversation, a very full blown presentation. Even, what I want to do is just going to tell you just a little bit. You know, she’s letting you know that there’s all these algorithmic updates and even Facebook has changed some of the way it shows likes how much it allows you to engage, how much it allows you to show across. And as a matter of fact, I’m going to go a little off topic here, because Liel just ran into that exact problem. We just started the podcast and on Facebook, they don’t allow you with a brand new page to go put ads out for more than twenty five dollars a day. So why? Well, because they’re trying to put things more in place, kind of like allowing of less other people to just jump on there, that shouldn’t be on there. You know, social media is a place where we all converse and it’s a place where you’ve you’ve come to try and feel safe. Right? And so with all these changes that have been going on on Facebook and on Google with the algorithmic updates and the component that the included artificial intelligence on Google. Now they understand more natural speech. There’s a lot more voice search. And so those were the messages that Nalini was kind of discussing and trying to let everybody know. You know, this is the trends. This is what happened. This is what changed. And this is what’s coming. So be ready. You know, and I think for me, the takeaway, the biggest takeaway was try to get on voice search if you can. That’s been coming for a while. So if you can build an Amazon skill, if you can, you know, create a voice search component or have your pages written in natural language in a way that, you know, the questions asked are natural for the system, that those are some things that to me are the most important to take away from that particular conversation.

Liel: [00:30:07] That’s been coming on for a few years now. Like the whole notion that you need to optimize your website, your content for voice search is critical. And so it’s coming. We know that it has already had a tremendous impact in certain industries. And the day it’s gonna come, the day when the search query for finding a lawyer near you, it’s going to be Alexa, dial the phone of our personal injury lawyer near me. And that’s going to call me inevitably. And so who’s going to get to be that resolved? That’s going to get dialed in to it’s going to be ultimately defined by whomever was able to stay ahead of the curb and get themselves on the map of Alexa and other voice search assistants in a timely fashion. So that’s coming.

Liel: [00:30:07] Well, Grace, so with that, we’ve reached the end of what the agenda worked for the marketing panels at this year’s Trial Lawyers Summit from the national trial lawyers in Miami. So, Grace, you’re there. You’ve heard it all as it happened. What are the final thoughts that you can share for those who could not attend to this year’s event?

Grace: [00:31:26] So the final thoughts I have on this and as you can see, it’s getting a little louder around me because they’re trying to crowd in on my spot here. So my final thoughts are, you know, Google, Google, Google, Google My Business, local search, hire the experts and, you know, stay with the trends. Oh, and of course, and I can’t believe I did not say this. Intake process, intake process, intake process. Answer that phone properly. This is the lifeblood of your firm. You must do it properly. And then, you know, of course, a little bit about the videos. Make sure you can do some storytelling on your videos. And there’s some simple mistakes that everyone does and just reminders of those. Don’t, you know, answer your phone, make sure you answer it properly with a firm name. Make sure that you answer people within five minutes that fill out a form. And, you know, and that includes in social media, you know, engage, ethically, converse, talk to them, don’t sell them and just make sure everyone has the same idea of your corporate culture. So I think that those are my final thoughts on the takeaways and information.

Liel: [00:32:34] That’s wonderful, Grace. So, Grace, again. Thank you so much for creating the time and space to talk to us to share these powerful thoughts and ideas as they’re happening at the Trial Lawyers Summit in Miami Beach. And we’ll be coming back to you next week with a new episode. Back to our final episode on our trilogy on intake and retention. And then moving on to case management and client experience and review generation. And so there is a bunch coming your way. Thank you so much for tuning in. And this is In Camera private legal marketing conversations. Have a great day.

Liel: [00:33:16] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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