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S2 E16: Ten Mass Torts To Know


ICP Logo

S2 E16: Ten Mass Torts To Know





In this week’s conversation, we explore the 10 Mass Torts you must know about in 2020.

Whether you are experienced in marketing and handling mass torts – or you are just getting started, this conversation will give you insights into what is gaining momentum, what keeps going strong, and what is already out.

Liel, explains how to decide on a digital strategy to generate leads for each type of mass tort in the list and why some networks work better than others depending on the specific data on the demographic group affected and the search volume that exists on keywords related to the mass tort.

Want to share your experience marketing for a mass tort in this list? Get in touch.

You can connect with us by visiting our website: incamerapodcast.com

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Please send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

Enjoy the show? Don’t forget to subscribe, tell your coworkers, and leave us a review!


Liel: [00:00:00] In camera podcast was created with one main goal in mind. Create a platform for legal and marketing professionals to come together and share best practices to build strategies that enable law firms to help more people grow. We have a duty to our black listeners, co-workers, clients and communities for whom we build campaigns promising to help and be there when they’ll need us. Well, now they need us to listen and join them in calling out injustice. And take a stand against racism. In camera podcast will be donating a dollar for each download of this episode over the next seven days to the national bail found that helps protesters across the nation pay bail. We encourage you to do the same in whichever way you can.

Liel: [00:01:14] Welcome to In camera podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations, we’re back. Grace, how are you today? Good.

Grace: [00:01:20] How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:22] I’m doing great. Grace, thank you so much for asking. It’s Monday, the day that we are recording these. And, oh, boy, what a weekend we’ve had. I mean, it feels and it looks like the world is falling apart. But we are here, Grace. We are standing strong. Right. No matter what, your ideologies are, no matter how do you feel about the current climate, we know that there is a lot of anger and frustration going on out there. And so I’m just saying it from the standpoint as you know, this is a good time to look inside our teams and support each other and allow for some conversations to be had. And because a lot of what we talk about here in this podcast is about leadership. It’s about culture, this is one of those times when culture needs to come first. You need to stand for your beliefs and make a statement. Right. Grace? I mean, our audience in part are lawyers. Right?

Liel: [00:02:24] And for those criminal lawyers listening to this show, this is the time to shine. This is a time to lend your support to the community outreach and to be there for people who in many times cannot defend themselves. So with that being said, Grace, I think we are ready to embark into a new conversation, one that I must say I’m very excited. You came up with the idea and I’m just up for a challenge because it’s really interesting. I’ll let you explain what is it? But we’re going to talk about. And I’ll be quiet.

Grace: [00:02:58] So OK, guys. So this is going to actually be a kind of fun for both of us. I’ve been involved in mass torts for really only about four years, I’d say, since I’ve been with Gacovino and Lake. And, you know, it’s such an interesting arena. You know, obviously, I look at it from an analysis perspective, data mining perspective, which we discussed on one of our other conversations that we had. And I just, we’re going to discuss basically the 10 mass tort cases to watch. Well, it’s actually eight or nine, but I would like the ten numbers. So we’re going to say ten top mass tort cases to watch in 2020. And as part of that conversation, Liel actually has questions. And he started asking me them right before the podcast. And what I thought and I know he thought. Let’s just actually have these real questions during the podcast, because these are things that he’s asked me before and he really wants to know. And I feel like the questions he’s asking are basically the questions I’ve gotten asked many times before when it comes to mass towards. So, Liel, I think that’s a decent enough intro. Is there anything that you want to add?

Liel: [00:04:05] That’s exactly right Grace. Thank you so much. And I’m ready for listening and asking. And let’s go on.

Grace: [00:04:14] All right.

Liel: [00:04:16] So, number one, Grace, what’s the number one mass tort case that we should have in front of our minds this year?

Grace: [00:04:24] Okay, so this one’s a little bit controversial. I’m going to give you a little bit of behind the scenes. So, again, as you guys know, I work for Gacovino and Lake and Mr. Edward Lake, Esquire has been involved in March Torts for a very long time. So I have not just the benefit, but the experience of being with him over the last four years and having him explain to me how these things work. So I’m at a level set expectations, though, from the very beginning and reiterate the fact, one, I am not an attorney. Two, this is a risky business. This is like gambling. So a reminder that if you don’t have the money to get involved in mass torts, then don’t do it. Okay? Especially in this time, I will never, ever tell anybody to get involved in anything that they feel like they can’t, particularly in a time like right now. OK. So again, I have to have those disclaimers. I am not an attorney and I just want to make sure everyone’s level set expectations as to what I’m going to be describing and explaining are based on experience marketing that I’ve seen and knowledge that I’ve gained over the last four years. Nothing to do with specifically Gacovino and Lake. Gacovino and Lake is not offering these up in terms of the best torts that you can buy right now. We don’t know. Nobody knows. OK, so let’s start there.

Liel: [00:05:43] Enough small print Grace. Let’s get right into it.

Grace: [00:05:48] I had to. I had to. Because the first one I’m gonna mention is kind of it’s funny because we have people on both sides with the first one. OK, Zantac. All right. We all know that Zantac got yanked from the shelves. At first it got yanked because of only certain lots were recalled. Right. Certain lots. You may remember that was back in April. Right. Where certain lots were yanked from the shelves because of elevated levels of N D.M.A. Which is a known human carcinogen then, not even I’d say maybe 30 days later, maybe less. It got completely recalled. Anything was recalled completely from the U.S. markets. Do you remember that, Liel, when that happened?

Liel: [00:06:30] I do. I remember Grace.

Grace: [00:06:33] So what they’re saying is that Zantac. Right. Its active ingredient is ranitidine. And for the last few years, they’ve kind of been under the microscope. It comes in two forms, prescription and over-the-counter. Obviously, most of the lawyers will know this. Those that are prescription with proof of use is a lot easier to prove out. In the end, as a case, because you have a prescription. However, a lot of times they can use over-the-counter with an affidavit of use proving that they did indeed use it for however many years they used it. Now, this one’s a little bit of an odd one, OK, because it has a whole list of cancers that they believe are potentially attached to it.

Grace: [00:07:18] And those are liver cancer, stomach cancer, prostate cancer, small and large intestinal cancer. Colorectal, esophageal bladder, NHL, multiple myeloma. Pancreatic.

Grace: [00:07:39] And that’s it. So there’s quite a few cancers that are essentially technically, quote unquote, associated to Zantac. The problem with that, again, is that some people are saying, well, if you’ve got this cancer, how is it not potentially really something else? So this one still obviously up in the air, but right now it’s one of those that you can kind of get in for a decent price in terms of getting Zantac cases.

Liel: [00:08:05] So, Grace, thank you so much for sharing the baseline of what a Zantac case is about. So cancer, I’m hearing several different types of cancer, very sad. Very devastating. So as a marketeer, if you were to come to me and say, hey, I want to run campaigns for generating leads on this, my mind would go directly to the search network. Pay Per Click or Search Network, and I’ll tell you why. OK. Number one, because of the search volume that currently there is for this particular potential lawsuit. Right. There is over twenty five thousand search queries per month nationwide. And for me, it’s a good indicator that there is enough interest to actually be able to generate leads through the search network. Secondly, it’s because the kind of client that you want to attract is that has already been diagnosed. Right? And so in order for you to track those, you need to target the people who are asking the questions now after it had been diagnosed or that they are awaiting results because of their own research and trying to determine what has been the cause that led them here. Right?

Liel: [00:09:28] And so I would without any doubt believe that the best place to go after this particular tort would be the search network, PPC, of course the most efficient way to just get yourself right there on the top of the page. You can attempt the SEO strategy. But we’ve talked about it many times. It just takes time. Right. And so if you really want to get yourself in front of people who are searching right now about Zantac, which we already know, there are over 25000 search queries coming about this particular kind of lawsuit. The search network pay per click is a place to go. So that’s what that’s what I would do. That would be my recommendation. If anyone out there is listening and are trying to figure out what’s a good way to go after a strategy like that. That would be my advice. Grace, let’s move on to the next one.

Grace: [00:10:16] So I do need to say something to your point, you’re hundred percent correct. If this is something you’re going to be doing on your own, I would suggest going towards PPC or Pay Per Click, or someone like yourself, like Nanato Media, who knows how to run these campaigns and well, you know, partner up with someone like you to feed them using the appropriate landing page, et cetera, et cetera. Make sure that’s all set up properly and then you have the processes in the back end. Now, there’s another way to do that. And you and I said we’ll have the whole literally conversation about this. But I need to mention it now. There’s a whole other way of doing this, which is you buy contracts. Right? And so leaders in mass torts, which is Ed Lakes company, leaders at mass torts dot com. That’s what we do through there is we sell done contracts. So we understand the entire process, including the specified criteria that’s being accepted based on experience, knowledge and trends. Right. And actual numbers. So you can also buy contracts. But if you do that way, that little is mentioning here, I would suggest if you don’t have the department to handle it for you, that you partner with someone like Liel and Nanato Media to be able to do that, because otherwise you can be throwing a lot of money away on potentially organic paid campaign that you’re doing. And it’s not going to render you the results that you’re looking for because you don’t quite understand how this process works. So I just want to make sure to mention it.

Liel: [00:11:48] Yeah, absolutely. And actually, this is a great time for those who are trying and initiating themselves in mass torts to go back and listen our first episode that we’ve created on mass tort, because there, I think, Grace you do a great job in explaining what are the options in co counseling and so forth. And so that can be very useful for those who are trying to decide what’s the best way to initiate and diversify with a mass tort strategy. Okay, cool.

Grace: [00:12:19] Ok, so the next one and this one is another one that’s somewhat controversial because some people are saying it’s kind of dead in the water, but I’m going to mention it anyway. And that’s Roundup, right? Monsanto’s Roundup Roundup is a popular herbicide. Many of you have seen it in your homes where you use it to kill weeds. Right. The issue with Roundup is that it contains glyphosate and glyphosate is a known human carcinogen. And the reason they’re saying that this one is potentially dead in the water is due to the re-approval by the EPA, the Environment Protection Agency of glyphosate and the use of glyphosate.

Grace: [00:12:58] And in addition to that, in California, where they have their own state laws with regards to environmental protection and things of that nature, they told them that they were not allowed to label glyphosate as a known human carcinogen or putting any type of labeling on the roundup bottle in California, despite their specific state regulations stating that if there’s an issue that they’re allowed to put certain warning labels. Right. I believe it’s Proposition 65, if I’m not mistaken, that allowed them to do those things. So that in and of itself, I’m hearing a little bit of buzz behind it, that potentially it’s not a good one. But I am hearing some other stuff on the other side that the commercial use of Roundup over the use of over the course of many years can potentially cause non Hodgkin’s lymphoma. And that is the specific cancer that they are looking at in Roundup. OK, so Roundup, again, is a herbicide that a lot of farmers and gardeners were using the criteria behind it has to do with prolonged use, generally use multiple times, multiple years, prolonged years of use and if you can show proof of use. So again, the commercial usage is usually the best because they have bills of lading. They have some kind of receipt showing that they use Roundup for a long time, whereas home usage, unfortunately, can be a little more difficult to prove. And so that’s Roundup when that’s kind of what one of the ones that we were looking at. Again, as of now, June, maybe, maybe not. But it is something that is still out there and still being looked at and potentially settling.

Liel: [00:14:39] So, Grace, I must say, when it comes down to round up the search volume on that one, particularly, it’s massive still. Right. Yeah, I know it’s surprising because it hasn’t really dropped that much. It has. Over the past few months declined. But it’s still sitting at 50000 search queries. Strong. Right. So I think it gained and gotten so much attention that it has remained a popular mass tort. Now, so definitely for those who are still open and taking in roundup cases, the search network, is a very powerful way to connect with people who are interested in searching and researching and wanting to see whether they can qualify for representation.

Liel: [00:15:24] But one that roundup is a very good candidate for style and campaign would be social media. Right? Because you can actually target very specific groups. Just to give you an example, for instance, in Facebook, there are groups that are called Farm and Ranch Equipment Group, Southern and Farming, right. And so when you find groups that are large enough, you can build up an audience of people who may potentially auto-qualify themselves for consultation. Right. Because as you’ve said, these are people that have been using commercially this product potentially for a long period of time. And they may see themselves reflected in those individuals who have been diagnosed with certain conditions as a consequence of the use of Roundup.

Liel: [00:16:20] And so it’s a really good way to generate that awareness in a very highly targeted way. So whenever you know what industry is the one where the product has been used the most. Right. Or the pharmaceutical element has been used the most, the better chances you have of being able to run campaigns on social media and see positive results.

Liel: [00:16:48] So just a note, on how people can approach these kind of campaigns. And one side note on that one, also Roundup and well, we did at the time that we were running round up campaigns, was also doing multicultural and multilingual campaigns. Right. Because a lot of the people who are actually in the fields are not necessarily English speaker first. They may speak Spanish as a first language and such. And so you definitely want to make sure that you capture them in a language that they are more comfortable using and speaking. Right. With that being said, Grace, let’s move on to the next one.

Grace: [00:17:28] And to Liel’s point guys, that is the most important thing, honestly, is remembering this is marketing towards a target. Right. So your specified criteria will determine essentially what platform you’re going to be marketing them, using to market towards and also how you’re going to market. I mean, and this third one honestly could not prove that any better. The third one I’m going to mention is Jewel. OK, so many of you know the Juul device. It’s been under fire for the past five years for many reasons, but namely. And this is essentially the biggest reason behind what we’re talking about when we talk about Juul, and that is the marketing towards minors between the years of 2016 and 2018 and deceptive, essentially deceptive marketing practices. OK. So that is the biggest reason behind Juul.

Grace: [00:18:18] And what they’re claiming is that they deceptively marketed towards minors between 2016 and 2018, thereby increasing for the first time in over a decade. Minors and nicotine usage. So and this was put out by the FDA commissioner himself, Scott Gottlieb. He posted it and said and warned Jewel, saying, for the first time in over a decade, you are the reason why young kids are now starting to use cigarettes again. Obviously not cigarettes specifically, but using nicotine

Grace: [00:18:52] And that is because they made Juul cool. They even had commercials on different places like the Cartoon Network. You can Google it and you will find that this is true. And what they found. OK. Now, again, I need to rephrase and say alleged.

Grace: [00:19:09] All right. But this is what the lawsuit is about. It is about the fact that they deceptively went towards minors and that they had them made it really easy for them to buy. So the target criteria is generally any lung issues that they may have experienced and its usage between when they were minors and if they use that between 2016 and 2018. In particular.

Liel: [00:19:34] Correct. Because I believe if I’m not mistaken. But I think. Somewhere in late 2018 is when they’ve started putting a disclaimer on all of their packages that there is nicotine and so… 

Grace: [00:19:47] Correct.

Liel: [00:19:47] So for those who started using it afterwards, they wouldn’t necessarily qualify. Correct. Or those who were smokers before they started using Juul, they would also not qualify and stuff. So there’s a lot of criteria there Grace, as you very well mentioned. But why don’t you tell us? Because I know for many of these Mass Torts that you’re talking here, you’re currently guys running campaigns. How are you running a Juul campaign where, you know, where are you seeing your marketing efforts paying off the most?

Grace: [00:20:23] So Juul was a very personal matter for Steve Gacovino of Gacovino and lake, which in and of itself, honestly, anytime that this is a personal matter for the attorney, it will have an impact on a whole other level if done right. OK, so we hit Juul up a couple years ago now. OK. And the way we started it was through an Instagram story. It was a very long Instagram story, as a matter of fact, which is, it was three minutes long. I created it based on Steve Gacovino’s personal story with regards to his son, his son, 15 years old and became addicted to Juul. He started finding pods all over his house and didn’t know what they were. And all of a sudden, he finds his child. You know, he’s a semipro in high school, essentially baseball player. And his grades start slipping and he starts getting irritable and he’s just not understanding what’s going on with his son. So eventually he ended up taking him, you know, to an addiction rehab, a therapist, and he went through the whole thing. His son’s obviously he’s doing great now, thank goodness, you know, and everything’s been better. But that was how we started, was through an Instagram story because it was a personal matter for him.

Grace: [00:21:43] We went from there, then we went out to the school boards, as a matter of fact, individually. And Steve Gacovino started speaking at different schools, at different organizations, at law colleges about Juul. So that’s actually how it started for us. It started from just a simple Instagram story with a little bit of paid media on the Instagram story. We had 2000 through views on the first few days of pushing it out. And then from there, we’ve basically moved on to a Facebook campaign. Unfortunately, on the Facebook campaign, the required engagement because of the age group. Right. You had 16, 18 or minors, right? 12 to 18 and a lot of cases. Or they were minors and they have addictive personalities or they’re addicted to Juul. A lot of times there’s some very negative commentary that can go on ;;the Facebook campaigns. So you have to be very careful with the messaging and how that’s done. I would suggest going on a search campaign, a simple one with the landing page, not necessarily Facebook, again, because of the target market and who you might be dealing with in terms of who you’re looking for, for that tort. Does that make sense?

Liel: [00:22:58] Grace, the reason why I asked you about it? Well, first of all, thank you so much for sharing the personal story and background agrees with Juul tort in Gacovino and Lake. We’re glad to hear that it came to good resolution. But unfortunately, it’s heartbreaking many times when you hear the calls of really young adults because, you know, they’re 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds, many times are the ones who are reaching out, talking about breathing problems, chest problems. You know, as you very rightly said, the people who lost a lot of their capabilities as athletes and such because of these. So it’s a very sad story. Like most mass torts are unfortunately. But when it comes down to the marketing side of things Grace. Here’s the thing. Here’s what I’ve encountered. So as you’ve said, social media, while it seemed like the best platform to send out a message, it can be very touchy.

Liel: [00:24:00] First of all, for paid campaigns, it’s going to be very hard to be able to target the audience that you want to have. Right. Because many of those people who are still affected by it are still minors. Right. And so you are probably going to have a greater success rate if you’re actually trying to go after the parents than the actual minors themselves in a platform like Facebook.

Liel: [00:24:25] But what we’ve encountered actually to be really great solution for this particular mass tort has been the search network because of the audience that there is here. These are people who are used to like they’re all gen Zs. Right. And so they’re actually used to going to Google and asking all of these questions. And it’s remarkable the amount of forms that we have received from the actual young adults, like 18, 19, 20 year olds that are actually experiencing the symptoms that the Juul lawsuit is highlighting.

Liel: [00:25:08] So I do want to point out, however, that the search volume is rather low. Like when we talked about Roundup, when we talked about Zantac, we were talking about 25000 and plus search queries per month. Now, with Juul right now, as it stands, there was a big boost right around August of twenty nineteen. Right now, the search volume is low. It’s about a thousand and 2000. But search queries. But they’re such high intent that you can almost guarantee that they will convert right off with some of the ads on the top of the search page results. Now, the other thing to keep in mind and this goes flat out for any mass tort is that you definitely need to be very careful about how do you go in creating your copy because you’re using Brand’s trademark in your ad copy. And  if you don’t know how to handle it, your ad is not going to roll, like it won’t get approved through Google, like they’ll potentially not allow you to run it because of trademark abuse or any other of the filtering elements that Google ads imposes on campaigns. But with the right strategist behind you and with people who are actually experienced in appealing to these decisions made by Google, you can certainly have your campaigns up and running. I mean, I’m telling you, because there is not one mass tort campaign that we’ve launched that has not been censored by Google at the beginning. And then eventually, through many appeals, we were able to push through. So that’s another thing that you need to understand, that Google does and many times these are algorithmic blockages that Google imposes that require manual revision and such. And when you are able to argument what’s the intent of the campaign, then you are able to launch. But it is a process that takes several steps to get to that point. All right, Grace. So, again, thanks for sharing. When it comes down to Juul.

Grace: [00:27:16] Yeah, that is such an important point to mention, though, right? It is. You know, you do have to pay attention to how you’re doing it. Right. How you’re going to be going after these because each and every one of them, no matter how you go after them, needs to be done the right way. I mean, that’s, again, throwing good money after bad otherwise. OK. So the next one that I have in mind, and I think this one would be pretty decent in terms of the… Because of who it is. Right. So that’s Fire-fighting film. So the aqueous film forming Thone is the foam that they used to put out fires. They also use them in training. And this is firefighters, guys. OK. It’s pretty new mass tort case. And you may not have heard about it too much, but it is becoming more well-known. And  what it does is, the firefighting foam, they use it to suppress Class A and Class B fires. It’s just how they, what they called the levels of the fires, but mostly chemical fires and at a rapid pace.

Grace: [00:28:22] And what is essentially does is it cuts off the oxygen to the fire and it diminishes it much faster than just plain water. OK. Now, this is the thing is every time that the firefighters have to use it, they use it in large amounts. Right. And essentially, you see them coated in it on a regular basis and they have to use it for training. So now they have found potentially that this is causing issues for on the female side, for fertility issues, pregnancy induced hypertension preeclampsia. And then as overall potentially increased cholesterol changes in the immune system, increased risk of certain cancers, liver damage, thyroid disease and asthma. But this is essentially the list of cancers that they’re looking at. Unfortunately, it is. They are considering it potentially causing cancers. And the cancers are testicular, breast, prostate, pancreatic and kidney cancers. OK, pretty bad. Well, any cancer is terrible, right? So those are what they’re thinking. It’s alleging to be causing at the moment. And again, it’s our firefighters and unfortunately, they use it on a regular basis. And that’s essentially what’s happening with that one.

Liel: [00:29:40] How new is this particular mass tort?

Grace: [00:29:42] Maybe a couple months now, it’s very new.

Liel: [00:29:47] The reason why I’m asking is because. So let’s start off here. Search network. There is very low search volume on this one. Right.

Liel: [00:29:57] But as we’ve mentioned, when it came down to Roundup, because you know very well what industry and who is using these, social media can be a great platform to raise awareness about the potential danger that exists behind being exposed to certain product. Right? Particularly if you’re saying here that it affects more females than males, although it sounds like both can get exposed. But you could still decide to create a campaign that it’s aimed towards the female impact that it has on females. And also, one that it’s more about the impact that it has on males. And you can run these on social network because, again, segmentation will allow you to get in front of the audience that is using this product. Right. Again, there is a page that is called firefighter community. If you’re going for a more targeted community, you can you know, there are various pages, Houston firefighters that exist right? Now, if the audience though, it’s very, very small and you’re just trying to run it out for one city, one firefighting group, you’re potentially going to have issues getting that campaign approved again because your audience is not going to be large enough. Right. Obviously, as much as we all know when here in the news that Facebook allows your personal data to be sold and that, you know, companies can target you and so forth and so on. They still have regulations that make targeting specific and very granular audiences somewhat challenging, particularly when you’re looking at small markets. Right. You cannot just choose one group of a thousand members and target them. Facebook won’t allow you. You still need to bring build an audience that has several thousands of people in it. So then, you know, you cannot really make your campaign almost kind of like invasive of the privacy of the users of one particular group.

Liel: [00:32:03] But certainly if you’re running this campaign at a national level, you can certainly build a group, a segment that’s going to be relevant enough for it to be seen by people who are part of the firefighting community and that way start generating the awareness on these. And the reason why, say it needs to be awareness campaign is because the search volume is still very low. And what does that tell us is that people don’t know about it yet. People are not that aware that this particular lawsuit is taking place or it’s in development stage. So that’s my three sense when it comes down to this particular one, Grace.

Grace: [00:32:46] Yeah, and this one in particular is actually getting into the water as well. So there’s like an environmental side to it, as in the sense it’s an environmental tort potentially as well. So, I’ve seen some of the research alleging that it, again, gets into the groundwater and is potentially harming the animals on farms and things of that nature. Kind of like Roundup in that sense. So just, you know, that’s another potential outlook on the firefighting foam, aqueous film that you can look at as well.

Grace: [00:33:23] Ok. So the next one. And this is sort of like the one with the roundup in the sense that it’s potential, but we don’t know because of the some of the specifics behind it. So that is the 3M earplugs. So at first, people were saying that 3M earplugs are going to be great because. So, OK, let me tell you what 3M earplugs are and then what they were causing allegedly and a little bit about the specifics of the case. And then we’ll go into why may not be a good case or tort. So in 2003, the U.S. military purchased the line of earplugs from 3M. OK. And they were specifically created for them to use in battle. They were dual ended combat arms, earplugs. Now, the whole idea was that they didn’t just purchase these earplugs. They were designed together with the military. And 3M creating these earplugs. And that’s going to become much more relevant later in this conversation. Now, the problem they were saying it was causing is that they did not actually create a seal in the ear canal. Again, dual ended earplugs create the seal in the ear to keep the decibel level from harming the ear. OK. So what they’re claiming it causes is tinnitus. Many of you guys have heard tinnitus. It’s actually pronounced tinnitus. So if that’s hearing loss or a ringing in the ears along with hearing loss. OK. So the issue behind this one that we’re starting to see in the not the trials, but in some of the paperwork that’s coming out with regards to this tort, is that since it was designed together with the military, 3M is claiming that it’s impossible for it to be called a defectively designed tort or for it to be a tort because it was defective designed if they designed it together with the military. The U.S. military. So now I’ve heard both sides on this one. I’ve heard that. Well, that’s that doesn’t mean that like as an example, Boeing, if they’re one of their planes, have an issue because they designed it with the military or with the government, the U.S. government. Does that exempt them from any potential harm or liability? We don’t know. So this one’s a little bit of an iffy at first it seemed like a potential slam dunk, quote, unquote. But again, as I mentioned at the very beginning, none of these are ever a slam dunk. There’s always questions involved. And this is like the stock market in that you put your money in and a couple of years later, potentially something will come out or potentially not. So this is one of those that is maybe good, maybe not. But the 3M earplugs, again, combat dual ended earplugs. The problem was it’s causing tinnitus. And it didn’t actually seal the ears and keep them from getting harmed from the bombs or IEDs that were being set off.

Liel: [00:36:15] Grace. So going back to the principles that we were talking before. Right. When you have the information as to who was specifically using the product, you are in great shape to start an awareness campaign through social media again. And it also happens to be. It’s very interesting because when you have products that are used by, you know, a wide net of people in the world, in your market, in the United States, you have or you tend to have search volume. But when you are actually targeting a very specific group of individuals, which in this case is the military, the search volume sometimes maybe there are sometimes may not be there. Right. In the case of Roundup, the search volume has been there. But Roundup has also been going for a very long time. Right. And it also the trajectory that Roundup has followed was one where very big settlements have been achieved. Right. And so obviously, that sits the tort to a different trajectory in the case of 3M Grace. And potentially because of the same reasons that what you’re saying, the search volume doesn’t really exist yet. If you want to go after these, you can potentially do so with good and highly targeted Facebook campaign targeting veterans. You want to definitely pay attention as to base military bases cities and go after those set up your campaigns targeting those particular cities. There is a lot of ways that you can get him front of active and ex military individuals with your message and raise awareness. And also because it’s a tort that has already been there for quite some time, some people may know about it. So you can also have a slightly more high intent message with a call to action. Right. For those who have already been more familiar with this. So you can test that out. But another great example of where Facebook can be a great platform for this mass tort campaign. What do you think?

Liel: [00:38:27] Hundred percent. That’s where you can hyper target. Much easier, especially for something like that. Right. The 3M military, there’s so many military groups, audiences, people that self, you know, marked themselves as military members. So, yeah, veterans, you know, very, very specific. And I think that that would be a great one for 3M.

Grace: [00:38:46] I agree as well. OK. So the next one and this one is super, super hot because there’s been a lot of movement on it. And that’s talc, the talcum powder. OK, so many years ago, they started the talc campaigns. Right. I’m sure you heard of them a few times now, most recently.

Grace: [00:39:12] This is the thing with TLC is that they decided to stop selling talcum powder in the U.S. and Canada. OK. They did not, quote unquote recall it. All they said is because due to a decline in sales. We decided to no longer sell talcum powder in the U.S. or Canada. However, we will continue to sell it in Europe and abroad because the sales still support the use of talcum powder. Now, again, this is essentially a way for them to save face, quote unquote. Right, without having to say that they did anything or that they claim anything or say that anything happened because of their talk.

Grace: [00:39:51] Now, there was I don’t know how long ago exactly, but they found in a lot of talcum powder there was found to be asbestos. OK. And that was not that long ago again. And so Amyris said essentially that, OK, we’re gonna have to go bankrupt because of all the lawsuits that are going on. And on top of that, they found asbestos in one of the lots. Amyris is the one that actually mines the talc. One of the companies that mines talc. So because of all of that, again, they’re claiming that the reason they’re going to stop selling talc in the US is because of a decline in sales. We are theorizing it’s because of the 16000 plus talcum powder cases that are out there claiming that it caused ovarian cancer. OK, so the named cancers for this right now essentially have been considered ovarian cancer. The number one cancer is ovarian secondary that we keep hearing is fallopian cancer. And the third is endometrial. Again, this is a gamble. So we don’t know for sure. However, the cancers that appear to do the quote unquote proving out in terms of that being the best cases. That’s ovarian, fallopian. And even a third tertiary endometrial with no previous cancers assigned to that individual. So what they’re finding is that on the actual cancer cells, if they have talc on the cancer cells, that is obviously the best in terms of being able to prove the case.

Grace: [00:41:32] So that’s what they’re seeing with talc. Talc is, the cancers are ovarian, endometrial and fallopian, mostly ovarian and fallopian. Some endometrial that are being accepted. But that’s what’s going on with talc. And now is the time to get in if you haven’t already. And if you don’t, I would say you better get on it now and get a hold of contracts because leads are going to be very difficult to come by if they aren’t already for most people.

Liel: [00:42:01] Grace, what I can tell you about talc is that it does qualify very well for a Search Network Campaign. There is enough search volume, above 10000 search queries per month. So very likely that you can actually generate high intent leads that could pre qualify very well for these. Now, if you want to take these more granular right, you can actually look at what particular brand of talc is the one that is leading out to the most cases and understand who and what market uses that the most. And then just like we’ve been saying for many, other mass torts whether it was 3M, where it was roundup, you can actually then go with a social campaign targeting that demographic group. Right. Mothers, who recently had babies or I don’t know, mothers with newborns back in the 90s or whenever. Right. And target those individuals with a message to raise awareness. So you can definitely go in, you know, and talk to those people who are already in the research phase through the search network. But you can also generate awareness through social by further digging into who have been the users. And what are the brands that have come across as those that have generated the most devastating cases in users. So, yeah, what do you think?

Grace: [00:43:31] Yeah. No, no, I agree. You know, you just still get them. Right. So you just have to be a little careful because talc has been out so long that you may end up with people that have either been previously reviewed. Right. Or filled out a form before. And, you know, they know that they didn’t qualify based on their previous criteria. So they may change the criteria. So you just, again, get a little careful because talc has been out for a while.

Liel: [00:43:54] I can I can only imagine. Right. Because I heard you say, like how hard is like as an individual, as a homeowner user or as, you know, gardening aficionado to prove your injury on Roundup by personal use. Right. And so that’s talc like how can you be prove so consistently being a personal use. Right. You know, you probably don’t have that many receipts saved that are indicating that you’ve been buying talc for the last 15, 20 years. So it must be Hard way to qualify. I’m interested. I really don’t know. We don’t get to help on that stage of qualifying. We just hear like, what are the qualifying questions. And so, is there is something around those lines that you guys ask for whenever you’re trying to qualify a talc user, like how many? Like it has to have been minimum this amount of years or so.

Grace: [00:44:51] Minimum four years. Yeah. And prefer Johnson and Johnson baby powder and shower to shower generally. OK, you know, because there’s other kinds of baby powders, you know, like the Wal-Mart brand or equate or whatever, but preferably it’s Johnson Johnson’s baby powder or shower to shower in preferred genital usage, because that’s generally speaking, where you might get the cancer. Right. Ovarian cancers and those types are because of that usage. And then under 65 years of age. OK. And no prior cancers or histories of cancers are usually best because then they can actually link. You know, if they don’t have necessarily a history of cancer or, you know, they didn’t ever have any other cancers before that, then it’s a little easier to link the fact that the use of talc for so many years is what led to, potentially led to the ovarian decrease.

Liel: [00:45:48] Yeah. So all of that information that you just share now, that’s exactly the information that you need in order to segment your Facebook campaign and make sure that it’s being seen by people that actually could be relevant subjects for the use of talc over an extended period of time. And then, you know, kind of like find themselves in a way or another reflected in the messaging of your campaign. That’s yeah, that’s really interesting. Grace, so let’s move on. We have a few more to go through.

Grace: [00:46:20] So I’m going to I’m going to very briefly mention these next two only because they’re a little bit older and one in particular is going to be done at the end of this month. Ok. And that is essure. So essure is a Coil in intra uterine device. Essentially, it’s kind of like an IUD and that it does get installed essentially into your uterus area. But it’s a coil. And the problem with essure was that they were claiming it was… So essentially, it’s a permanent implanted birth control device. OK. It was created by Bayer Healthcare and it’s been on the market since 2002. What it was doing is apparently they did not have any type of messaging on there, saying that it contained nickel. So it was causing some nickel poisoning in some women, it was migrating. It was perforating the uterus. It was breaking off and causing for hysterectomies because of all of those issues. Now, essure is a very special one because it had pre market approval, meaning it was approved to go out to the market before certain tests were done by the FDA, meaning they had kind of a special, quote unquote, dispensation to be able to send this out without having to pay for the liability. So this one’s kind of been on and off in terms of being a tort for a while now. OK, so that’s why I said it’s one I’ll mention. But if you’re not in it or you haven’t already started getting contracts or you’re about to end it, this is not the one to get into. Really. But essure is something that was started for a couple years ago and people have kind of gone in, gone off. And again, the issues that it was causing was migration, perforation, and essentially hysterectomy is and no longer being able to have children because of it or they were actually getting endometriosis or ectopic pregnancies. So they were getting pregnant even with this device in there. It’s pretty bad. Really bad.

Liel: [00:48:21] What’s the next one Grace?

Grace: [00:48:21] Next one is hernia mesh. Again, another one that is been around for a while. Hernia mesh is a medical device that doctors implant into the stomach or groin area to essentially keep your guts in. OK. I’m sorry to say it like that, but that’s the easiest way to explain what it does for those of you who don’t know what it does. It helps the weakened tissue to keep everything together. Now, they’ve been using these mesh devices for over 50 years. Five zero guys. So they’ve been using it for a long time. And about 80 percent of hernia mesh repairs performed in the United States used, I’m sorry, hernia repairs used mesh products, but in the most recent years, there’s been studies on hernia meshes and unfortunately they’ve been finding that it can cause potential severe harm. So like pain, infection, a recurrence of the hernia, adhesion, meaning the mesh sticks to this, to the insides, you know, parts. Bowel obstruction. You know, when you’re not able to use the restroom or your bowels don’t perform the way they’re supposed to. The mesh has migrated and the mesh can also shrink or contract. So, you know, pretty bad issues. Now, this is the big thing with hernia mesh. If they haven’t had a revision surgery, it’s not going to qualify.

Grace: [00:49:39] And it needs to be not just a revision surgery, but it needs to be certain brands that created it or that manufactured the hernia mesh that are under the lawsuit. OK. And this is essentially, you know, Baade, Cook and a couple of other ones, you can actually take a look on on our Web site and leaders at mass torts and take a look at the specific names of the manufacturers. But there are specific manufacturers that created these. A lot of times the claimants don’t know. Right. They don’t know what lot number. They don’t know that they even had a revision surgery, some of them. Right. So that one’s a little difficult because it’s been out for a while. But it is still one that’s very viable. It’s still out there. And, you know, I don’t know what the search volume is telling us. What’s it telling us Liel?

Liel: [00:50:26] Well, actually, you know, the fact that it’s been out for a while, Grace speaks when it comes down to search volumes. There are more than 20000 search queries on any given month on hernia mesh lawsuits. Right. So people are fairly aware. And for that reason and I will kind of like bundle up here at essure as well. I would certainly think first of the search network to target individuals who are in the research process here. Now, when it comes down to essure, though, I would mention that I would pay a lot of attention to the symptoms. Right. And create the campaigns also very much around those symptoms, because in some cases, people will not be very clear about identifying the root cause right away, but they definitely can tell what is it that they’re feeling? And so you want to make sure that when you’re targeting symptoms, you are addressing those symptoms in your copy and then making the correlation as to why those symptoms can potentially have be related to the use of certain pharmaceutical or having gone to a certain procedure and so forth and so on. Right. So that kind of like particularly came in mind when you talked about essure. But it’s applicable for many other medications, pharmaceutical products and such. So that’s what I have to share about that. And we have two more to go, Grace.

Grace: [00:51:56] All right. So the next one and this one is in limbo a little bit. All right. And that is the IBC filters. That’s the inferior vena cava heart, guys. It’s in your heart. An inferior vena cava filters. It’s a small metal device that looks like an umbrella, sort of a metal thing with three prongs to it, like a trident, I guess. And it’s placing the fear vena cava vein. And it’s used to prevent blood clots usually placed in people who have suffered a major accident or just had major surgery. And again, mostly for people with who have been diagnosed with what’s called deep vein thrombosis, a pulmonary embolism. These are all blood clot issues. Right. They physically may not be able to move and suffered some kind of physical trauma. So they’ve been used for over 15 years and they were implanted for various issues. Again, this is something that was supposed to be implanted and then be able to be removed. It’s a removable filter. Now, the injuries that people are essentially claiming that have occurred because of the implant of the IBC filter or device migration, meaning it moved around little parts of the device, detached and left in the body. The filter itself fractured it perforated a vein or an organ. Complications associated with removing it. Again, it’s supposed to be a removable filter and even death, unfortunately, which, you know, that to me is is there’s just no answer for that one. So the FDA issued a statement saying that they recommend IBC filter should be removed between 29 to 54 days after implantation. And then they found that due to overuse of the device, they caused a greater risk of further damage to the person because they were never actually removing it. Or over time, even though it was only twenty nine, 54 days, it actually did migrate, move or fracture inside of the body before they were able to remove it, which meant they couldn’t remove it. Without causing severe damage to the person.

Grace: [00:53:59] So IBC filters are still, you know, like I said, they’re a little bit in limbo. We haven’t heard too much about what’s going on with the litigation in with regard to that. But that is a potential tort that’s going on right now.

Liel: [00:54:10] Yeah. Grace, you know what? Just hearing the description of who gets it and who has been likely a subject to get one of these IBV filters, I would think this is a good example for data mining campaign. Right. You want to go through all of those clients that you’ve represented over a period of time. Right. And see those who are more likely to have gone through a procedure where one of these filters, it could have been implanted in their bodies as part of the medical treatment that they’ve received as a consequence to an injury that he went.

Grace: [00:54:50] So that’s such a perfect thing to say, Liel, because the deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolisms, those are very specific drugs that you end up taking as well. So if an IBC filter that was installed in you and you happen not know that they took. I’m not going to say what drug because I don’t know specifically what goes with those. And I don’t want to be wrong. But let’s say you took a drug that had to do with pulmonary embolism. And as a lawyer, you know that. And it was a previous potential tort. Well, guess what? You can date need a mine against that drug, knowing that they take it for their heart. And these guys potentially had an IBC filter implanted. So, yeah, it’s a very good, very good data mining tort.

Liel: [00:55:32] Yeah. If you’d ask me, I would certainly if you have the database and you are you know, you’ve have handled a lot of severe injuries throughout your career. I think it’s a great place to start. Right. I mean, of course, you can certainly run campaigns on these, but this is something that, you know, it’s very rare that we come through recurring injuries like people that have been a client needing your services again. This could be one of those examples. So that’s why I’d like to make it more specific and say, hey, here is a data mining opportunity, in my opinion.

Grace: [00:56:08] It’s a very good point. You’re a hundred percent. Right. And you know, well, you will even remind certain torts that we’ve run out. Right. So like talc, it is a perfect example. They changed some of the criteria. They moved it from ovarian to ovarian and fallopian and potentially endometrial. Right. So they opened a backup rereviewed everybody that was in the case loads. Right. That were previously rejected. And they were able to sign more backup because the criteria changed. So that’s data mining at its finest. Honestly.

Liel: [00:56:39] Yeah. Great example Grace.

Grace: [00:56:42] And now this is the last one I leave it last because it hurts my heart so bad, but I’m, you know, really all of these do. But this one is more of a little bit of a bankruptcy thing. So I don’t know if you’d call it a mass tort. We’ve kind of lumped it in there, but it’s kind of a class action, a little bit of a bankruptcy court thing. So I am gonna include it and I’m going to mention it. But it’s not a classical tort. Right, or a classic one. And that is the Boy Scouts of America sexual abuse cases.

Grace: [00:57:10] Ok. So it all came out, for those of you that know you know, it’s an organization that’s been active for over a hundred years. It included over two point two million young members between the ages of five and 21 and approximately eight hundred thousand volunteers throughout the U.S.. So they claim to teach there, you know, the members how to be prepared for life. And then as of February 2020, the Boy Scouts filed for bankruptcy due to essentially all these lawsuits being filed against them, claiming that young members were sexually abused by the scoutmasters. And so because this mass tort is very new, there’s not a whole lot of cases and information behind it. But there is the bankruptcy courts and the information behind that. All right. So you will start seeing some more info on the BSA lawsuits as they kind of come across or as they kind of more information goes out about it. But  essentially what happens with these types, because it’s a bankruptcy for them to divest themselves of all the lawsuits. They’re essentially going to, and most likely, create a fund with which they’re going to pay out all of these claimants, sort of like the GM ignition recall. Right. Like the those types of, you know, bankruptcy type of things or where they create a fund so that everybody can go and get the money based on their injuries from. So that’s essentially what the BSA cases are. And I referred to the Boy Scouts of America cases as BSA cases, and that’s what they’re going to be about. You know, they filed for bankruptcy and all of these paperwork came out saying that, you know, all these children were molested and or harmed. And so, again, though, most likely create a fund from the bankruptcy courts. And then they will pay out the claimants from there.

Liel: [00:59:01] Yeah. Very sad, Grace. And I think this is a good example of a mass tort that could very well qualify for an SEO strategy. Right. This is the kind of case that you want to set yourself as an authority, as an expert on this matter, create content about these, because potentially many of the people coming forward with cases will need to go through a cycle of conversion and research, and you gonna have to provide them with multiple touch points so they can see you as the ultimate authority to help them out. Right. But with that being said, I also think there is some massive opportunity here for display placement ads.  So you can already if this is something that you can handle and you are interested in getting in front of people who are researching this matter. You can certainly find on the Google partnered network news articles that have been written about these and get yourself banners in these articles, inside of these articles where people are reading, many of these people potentially are reading out of general interest. But, some people may be reading because they’re actual victims. Right. And so it’s a great place to actually just kind of like raise a flag and say, hey, we are here. We specialize in these and we can help. But I certainly think that this is something that you want to have content on your Web site. You want to really go and address these not just with a landing page, but with some more thoroughly thought approach that it’s seeking to build trust and expertise. Right, Grace?

Liel: [01:01:01] Yeah. No, Hundred percent. You need content behind this one. I mean, it’s you can’t just slap it and go, you know, it’s super important that you inform, you know, and help your clients in particular for something like this.

Liel: [01:01:12] That’s what if you’re asking me I would do suggest. Great, Grace. Wow. So we went through 10 mass torts, and it’s heavy, right? What a heavy conversation. But at the end of the day, good conversation to have because it’s great to hear that there is capable and skilled and very eager to help attorneys out there taking care of people who have been impacted by these unfortunate events and Grace, we are very happy and excited to be part of it by helping them build strong and powerful strategies to help them get in front of those people who need help. Right. And so it’s a tough conversation, but one that has to be have in order to really have an impact and make some good. So, Grace, before we leave. What would be a couple of takeaways that we can give our audience? Right. So let’s first think of those who are still on the early stages of getting involved in mass torts. And they’ve just heard now about some mass torts that are happening and they are thinking, well, I want in one of them or two of them, like, what’s a good first step to take Grace?

Grace: [01:02:30] So I think the first step you need to take is to look at the bandwidth you have to manage these mass tort cases. OK, that means beginning to end. And this is just like any other personal injury case. Do you have the bandwidth to handle it from beginning to end or do you want to essentially farm out certain parts of it. And does that mean the beginning? Does that mean the middle? Does that mean the end? Are you going to go buy contracts? So. That to me is the very first thing you need to look at. Look at the tort that you want. Look at how you’re going to achieve getting those cases and whether that’s doing it yourself, doing it through search network or buying the contracts directly. So that to me is number one. What do you think?

Liel: [01:03:11] I think it makes all the sense of the world Grace, right. I mean, as you very well said, there are several ways to get involved in mass torts. Right? You can just do the investment side of things or you can actually partake in the handling of the cases in representation in the marketing. And so that’s definitely something that you need to find for yourself. So, Grace, obviously you Gacovino and Lake are a great resource to have these conversations and find out what are your opportunities and ways to come in. Right. Are there any other ways? We’ve talked about mass torts Made perfect connect. Right. Which is a platform that has been created really almost as an answer to the recent pandemic. And it’s giving a lot of content and webinar information for attorneys and marketeers who want to get involved in mass torts. Right. So that’s another good way to go and get more information, get involved and find what would be the right next step for you. So that’s our first take away, Grace, take away wary number two. Let’s talk a little bit more about the cycle in which these mass torts are. Right. So we just went through 10 of them. You’ve highlight some of those that are kind of like coming to an end, some of them that are still in early stage. Grace. What is the low hanging fruit right here? Like, let’s say that you are actually, you know, capable of doing handling, you already have partnerships that like you have a system in place for mass torts. But you’ve heard now about some mass torts that your may not necessarily be involved with yet. What could be a mass tort where you would say, you know, this sounds like a solid opportunity to go after. We know that the results are not guaranteed for anything. But like right now, these are the stronger elements. Now, for instance, essure, you’ve said that this is coming to an end. So what would be the opposite to that?

Grace: [01:05:18] I’d say depending on, again, this is if you have everything in place already. Go after Zantac and talc. If you have the time right now, do it. Go after talc. And if you have the stuff in place, go after talc or buy the contracts, because that is something that has a short timeline, appearing to be a short timeline and coming to a head right now.

Grace: [01:05:40] So if you can go into talc and then Zantac, because it’s still kind of emerging and somewhat new in the sense that it’s you know, it’s still somewhat cheap to get those cases. And again, I think the most important thing and you know, I know you mentioned this, but to me, this will be like the third take away that’s attached, the second take away, and that is diversify, diversify, diversify and say that more for stock market. Write this down with your torts.

Liel: [01:06:08] That’s right, Grace. Well, Grace, thank you so much for sharing with us such valuable information. Great content, Grace. And we’re excited to get back here next week with another conversation.

Grace: [01:06:21] Awesome. Thank you.

Liel: [01:06:22] Thank you, Grace. Have a great week.

Liel: [01:06:30] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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