At In Camera Podcast, fall is one of our favorite times of the year for one particular reason; it’s the time of the year when all legal marketing content creators start to publish their “next year’s trends to look out for” lists, and we love dissecting every one of those.

In this week’s conversation, we go over the 2021 legal marketing trends, according to Cardinal Digital Marketing, which covers everything from SEO, SEM, local search, and brand building.

And whether you agree or disagree with the “trends” of the list, one thing is a hundred percent accurate, and that is, if you are planning on making a big impact with your law firm’s digital marketing strategy next year, you should have already started working on you 2021 strategy months ago.

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Transcript

Liel: [00:00:00] Have you stopped for a moment yet to consider how 2021 will be like in terms of legal digital marketing? Not yet you should, otherwise you will be late for the future. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media, and this is Incamera podcast, where we believe the best time to build the future is today.

Liel: [00:00:50] Welcome to Incamera podcast, private legal marketing conversations, Grace, how are you today?

Grace: [00:00:56] Good, how are you Liel?

Liel: [00:00:57] I’m great, Grace. This is one of my favorite moments of the week. We logging into our podcast recording platform.

Liel: [00:01:06] See your smile, Grace. And I’m happy and I’m happy because I know the moment where we get to just do what we love the most. Talk about legal marketing, talk about opportunities, strategies, trends is just upon us. And so I’m really excited about what we have prepared for today. You care to explain our listeners a little bit about what is it that we’re going to be talking about today.

Grace: [00:01:28] Yep. So hi, everybody. Today we’re going to talk about the trends that are coming up in 2021 for legal marketing. And the idea is basically everything that’s been going on, be flexible, be ready, and we’re going to use a specific list that we found. And I’ll let Liel tell you a little bit more about that.

Liel: [00:01:47] That’s right, Grace. So this particular list was created by Cardinal Digital Marketing and probably many of you know who Cardinal is right? They are a massive digital marketing agency with a very, very strong presence in the legal industry. Grace. They areheadquartered in Atlanta, they create quite a bit of content specific for law firms. They do all kinds of digital marketing services for law firms. And quite frankly, they’re quite popular right now. A lot of law firms work with them. They found your services to be up to their expectations and it’s a good solution for them. And they did put together their list of trends for 2021. And as we’ve said a few weeks ago, that’s the time of the year where we start seeing these 2020 lessons learned in this year and then 2021 trends to look forward to. And so I’m super excited to go over what Cardinal Digital Marketing is seeing as the trends for 2021. So Grace, let’s start with the first one. What are our friends in Cardinal Digital Marketing say? It’s going to happen in terms of legal marketing in 2021.

Grace: [00:02:59] So this is something you and I have talked about quite a few times, and it’s all about the client. Right? Put the client first and that has to be in everything you do in your legal marketing. There’s so many options out there for clients, right. They don’t want to waste time and everything is at their fingertips in terms of who you are, what you do, your brand, your practice areas, everything at their right, in their hands. And so you need to make sure that anything you do and your legal marketing, you’re putting your clients first. And that’s what they list here on the number one for their list of trends in twenty twenty one, which we know is not just twenty twenty one, right.

Liel: [00:03:36] Yeah, absolutely. Great. I mean, honestly, this is kind of like a constant right. It’s not a trend on twenty, twenty one alone. It’s been around since websites started existing. Do everything thinking of the client and make your content, make your website, make everything that you’re putting out there on digital platforms relevant towards them. Right. This, as you very well said, it’s been central in most of the conversations that we’ve never had.

Liel: [00:04:04] Now, what they’re focusing here a lot in the breakdown that they give to this point is being human.

Liel: [00:04:13] Talk to your users through your content in a way that you would do if they were in front of you, something that not a lot of people are doing, particularly with their written content. Video content is something that has obviously become more normalized this year due to the pandemic and the need upon everybody to actually embrace video and technology as a way to personalize and humanize communications now that we cannot do personal communications as often as we would like. Right. So from that standpoint, I think it’s a very relevant topic and it’s going to stay around. I just want to emphasize here that they are basically saying see things from the standpoint of your clients, right. From that standpoint, and you’re going to be more successful at being relevant to them.

Liel: [00:05:08] What do you think?

Grace: [00:05:09] Right. Don’t pitch. Right. Don’t just do some sales pitch, talk to them, be specific, and create value. That’s it.

Liel: [00:05:17] Yep, absolutely. I think rates and that’s so important because we see so many law firms. Right. That he’s still market basically with the car salesman energy around their business and it doesn’t work anymore. It doesn’t work anymore. So this is a good reminder that things have evolved. Some of the strategies that were efficient ten, twenty years ago around law firms are not as efficient anymore or efficient at all. Right. Consumer behavior has changed. People are looking for different. And they want to be talked in a slightly different way, so understand very well who you’re talking to and adopt the right tone, the right message for that. So I love that. Now, Grace, the second one, a little bit more technical, and it’s based primarily on SEO trends. So this is what they write. Pay close attention to the growing prominence of semantic search. Grace, a few weeks ago, we talked about the lessons for 20/20 for SEO and we actually talked about that, the focus on user intent. You know, when I read that this particular point, it actually reminded me from Google Marketing live back in twenty nineteen when I was there and what was really the underlying message in the whole conference was we are entering the age of predictability. And one thing that I’ve seen kind of like shifted slightly to a different message, maybe because of the whole privacy concerns, is that there are not embracing that message that much anymore. But you’re still going with the plan, right? You’re not hearing so much Google talk about predictability, predictability, but they’re actually doing it still. Right, because if you can predict somebody’s intent is because you have data on them. Right. And that whole thing is starting to feel a little bit intrusive or very intrusive, depending who you’re talking to. And so they’re now talking about semantic search and they just throw their concept that not everyone can easily digest. But basically what it’s saying is that Google is going to look at different data points to decide what’s the best search result for these particular users, looking at many different behavior patterns. In other words, it’ss like we can no longer just write content and create an exit strategy based out of keywords. It has to be more about answering questions that your specific buyer persona in your particular market is searching for. And if you don’t drill that down, you’re not going to have the relevancy. SEO has evolved big time and this is basically what semantic search is, is that much of the writing and the user’s content with the right business for that specific user base. So I think this is on the rise. We’re going to be hearing a lot about these moving forward. And this has to go directly hand in hand with the way that you build and create content. And how do you write and how do you structure your website information? It’s it touches everything. But it basically brings back the concept that SEO is more important than ever to really be able to give Google the data that they need to be able to match you out with users that you are relevant to. What do you think?

Grace: [00:08:41] A thousand percent Liel. Just to bring it down to ground level for everybody that’s listening, you know, behavioral traits, consumer behavior, all of that data points, all that is, is basically what Liel said. Right. Is your journey to that particular law firm or that business. Right. And in this case, it’s specific to the law firm. And you have to write create and everything you do needs to be for the user. And that includes their journey. So part of semantic search and the way I’ve always looked at it is what about you when you’re in what Google actually calls a micro moment, whatever you’re dealing with, whatever you’re at, that specific moment, you need to write something for that person in that moment. And that’s what makes them click. And in that case, in this case for personal injury. As an example, I would use a car accident. You know, you’re not going to write an article, long form article for somebody that just got in a car accident right then and there. You know, they’re not going to look at that. So you need to match it with the behavior and the consumer. And as they get to you. Right. That’s the whole point of what we’re talking about in this section.

Liel: [00:09:48] Yeah, I totally agree Grace. So let’s move on to the next point of trends for 2021.

Grace: [00:09:55] So the next point is really related, right. It’s get your local SEO game up way, way up. Basically, guys, you know, we’ve all been talking about the local service ads and, you know, some of the other geo specific things, meaning geographically specific because of Google to your location. And that includes and in particular for the small to medium sized law firms, they have specific geographic areas that they can serve their license in certain areas that are, you know, let’s say a state like New York. Right. New York is broken down into five boroughs. So you need to make sure that your local SEO is specific to your region, your area, and your people. What do you think, Liel? Because I know you have a lot to say about SEO specifically.

Liel: [00:10:45] Oh, it’s you know, it’s really common sense, right? Google is terrific for local search. And users have embraced it, users have found out that they can actually find excellent solutions to their needs when they’re searching on Google and they’re obviously using it whenever they need legal services as well. And so obviously, you know, the rules for local search are very basic, right, on a high level. But of course, it gets competitive. So you definitely need to make sure that you’re not just doing the bare minimum, but actually try to push further. So let’s go over some of these basic local search rules. Number one citations, have your listings, have your listings. Guys like not everybody is just used to searching on the local pack. Some people want to search on Google. Some people want to search on Facebook, believe it or not, Grace, some people still use Yelp. I know it’s shocking, but people still use Yelp. And you can also look at your other legal specific directories right. Be that Justia, be that Avvo. Whatever. So have your listings in place have that well-structured. Now, Grace, like we cannot say this enough, generate reviews, generate reviews, have that as the standard operation systems of your law firm. It has to be there, identify the right moment. Know and explain and create processes to ask and get reviews. This is extremely important. And sends very, very important signals to Google. The other point here, Grace, and this is where it gets so competitive and it requires a more structured strategy, is create content that is actually sitting on other platforms other than yours, not just on your blog, but on other well regarded and relevant platforms. And those are actually linking back to you. Right. So in other words, link building from local organizations, government education organizations that are linking back to you. Right. And that’s easier said, harder done. As I’ve said, it requires a proper outreach strategy for you to actually be able to get results on this line. So all of them very, very important. But obviously, start with the low hanging fruit. Citations, reviews, and then, yes, move towards creating relevant content that you can actually have sitting in other platforms other than yours. And those are actually sending links back to your site. This is primarily to indicate to Google how relevant and authoritative you are. So in a nutshell, we’ve just knocked out local search, Grace, but I wanted us to move on to the next point because it’s about user experience. Make it easy for clients to get what they need. Grace, user experience has never been more important than it is today. Why? Because we’ve been spoiled by a terrific user experience from platforms that know how to do it very well. And I’ll go back to say, look at Apple, look at Amazon, look at other platforms that you use on your mobile devices, where you shop right, where you run transactions, where you’re finding and engaging with people. Your Law Firm needs to be as intuitive as these ones. So it’s extremely important that everything that touches your brand on a digital platform needs to be up to standard. It needs to provide a seamless journey to the user.

Liel: [00:14:46] And sometimes, Grace, this gets overlooked. Like if you have a live chat, how well does it integrate to your website? How disruptive is it to the overall user experience, just like we were talking a few weeks ago as well. How about accessibility? That’s important. That’s super important, right. Do you actually have that already in place for your website? No? Well, you should write because you should make your website and your platform available for anyone who’s trying to engage with you. And then, Grace, I honestly, I’m becoming a very, very firm believer about search bars on your website. If you have several practice areas, if you have several blog posts and such, make it easy for users to be able to search from inside your website exactly what they’re looking for, rather than have to navigate through ten different tabs, fifteen different practice area pages and try to find what they need, particularly if you have a strong brand, people are going to go and land on your website specifically. They’re not necessarily going to go to Google. Right. That’s another very, very big component that we need to touch in here. Many brands are already starting to skip Google. Why? Because their users are going directly to the websites so they get there. So now they need to find what they need. Inside your website, and so you need to provide them that experience of search engine inside your website so they can stay there and find what they need. So a lot to digest and a lot to work on when it comes down to user experience. What do you think?

Grace: [00:16:11] I definitely agree with you. I mean, it’s central to all of our themes, right? It’s making sure that the client gets what they need. And that’s just simple as that. And that includes everything you do. Intuitive navigation, everything inside of your website needs to have internal linking. Related posts need to be related to each other. Same with your practice areas. All of it needs to make it easy for the user to get the information they need at the moment. They want it instead of having to go look everywhere for it, especially as you said, if they land right on your website, why would I want them to leave?

Liel: [00:16:44] Absolutely, Grace. And that’s something that could be happening and definitely needs to be addressed. So, Grace, I know we have a few more points to go through. Let’s see what’s next.

Grace: [00:16:57] So this is always kind of controversial. And you and I are actually we’re talking about it before we started our actual podcast, and that is Facebook. You know, a lot of people say increase your investment in Facebook ads. And that’s actually point number five on cardinal marketing. I know that you and I both have our own thoughts when it comes to Facebook and, you know, increasing the marketing or not increasing the marketing or doing whatever it is that you do in your Facebook strategy as part of your overall strategy. I mean, in PPC advertising, we all know, at least in my opinion, and probably yours, too, I won’t speak for you, Liel, Google Ads is considered kind of the gold standard, quote unquote, in terms of being able to provide you with what you need, specifically in terms of putting advertising out there to get who you want into your law firm. Right. So to me, that’s what I would consider the gold standard, and that’s how they refer to it in the article. Now, Facebook will and still, I feel, gets you the leads and things that you might need, but it has to be extremely well defined. The strategy has to be done in a very cohesive fashion. It needs to be done with the rest of your strategy. And you really have to pay attention to what you’re doing because you can easily lose a lot of money if you’re not actually specifying what your strategy is supposed to be in Facebook. I don’t know. What do you think about that, Liel?

Liel: [00:18:19] I agree with you. When you say, Grace, that Google Glass is the gold standard. It is because it allows you to target intent. Right. And that’s really what law firms need. They want to get in front of people that are searching for the services that they need right now. Right. People are not on Facebook looking for law firms. That’s something that nobody needs to tell you, but. If you have a good Facebook strategy and you’re targeting the right type of a persona with the right kind of messaging, with the right type of content, they’ll allow you in your timeline and then they’ll see you. Then they’ll know, they’ll become familiar with you and the day they’ll need you. Then they’ll reach out to you. So. I think Facebook can be extremely effective if you have drilled down on your buyer persona, if you know very good the demographic segment that you’re actually after and you’ve actually taken it upon yourself to create a well thought of Facebook strategy in those cases, I think Facebook is actually extremely effective. Now, I will say the following. Facebook allows you to come in with very small budgets, right? You can you know, everybody’s seen that message under a timeline, boost your post for five dollars and you think, oh, wow, I’m marketing, I’m advertising. And so it’s not strong enough to have an impact. Think about Facebook as TV, right. You wouldn’t go to a TV network and say, hey, guys, I have five dollars. Can you get me some results with that? They’ll probably won’t. Well, for sure. There will tell you no. Right. Like they won’t even take the call. But with Facebook, you also need to have enough reach in order to be able to see to get seen enough so that the campaign is effective. So while I don’t think that people need to necessarily come in with a budget that is comparable to a TV campaign, I certainly think that they need to understand that they need to be competitive for whatever market it is that they are and their digital marketing agency should be able to advise them what that number is. But if not, you can actually, as you’re building up your campaign, get some recommendations by Facebook. Right. And so on, Facebook will tell you, well, with five dollars, you can reach one hundred people and you may be one hundred people. Well, guys, look at the conversion rates. Look at the click through rate in Facebook is zero four of a percent. Right. Like it really takes a lot of impressions before somebody really engages with you, especially if you are targeting a big segment. Right. So, again, know who your buyer persona is, create extremely specific strategies for them. It can work very well for you. Now, the other thing that you were saying, Facebook is a controversial platform. Should I advertise there, should I not advertise there? At the end of the day, Grace, go back to your buyer persona, go back to your values as a law firm.

Grace: [00:21:25] Exactly.

Liel: [00:21:26] Does it conflict with you? Does it conflict with your buyer personas? Because if it does, then your buyer personas are not there. Right? It doesn’t conflict with you. It doesn’t conflict with your buyer personas. Then you should be there. Right. So kind of like that kind of scenario and Grace, with that being said, why don’t we move on to point number six and that’s diversify your content marketing strategy. That sounds like the first time we talk about that Grace or am I wrong?

Grace: [00:21:52] Um, yeah, you know, because we never talk about diversifying anything.

Liel: [00:21:58] No, we actually like to do always the same thing. Agent cookie cutter content whenever it’s easy, right?

Liel: [00:22:06] So diversify your content marketing strategy cannot be said enough, grace. But I do like all of the examples that they give here. They said podcasts. And I will tell you something, Grace, like a lot of law firms still find it hard to convince themselves that an actual podcast can be a good marketing strategy for them. But it can work. It can work. I like the example that they give here on the article where they say, you know. Talk about why is it that it’s important to have an actual lawyer working for you and not try to find a cheap solution using legal zoom? Right. Like, what are some disaster stories coming out of legal zoom? The bottom line is that there is a lot of disruptors out there going after the legal industry. You call it whatever Rocket lawyer or legal zoom, whatever that is. There are new platforms coming up and going after that business. Depending on the practice area that you do, you may or may not be threatened by it. But the bottom line is that what you do, those platforms can’t, right. And so you need to advocate for that. You need to deliver the message. You need to make it very clear why is it that it’s a better solution to work directly with someone and the value. Right that you bring to the table? And so, Grace, I think those are things I actually think that more of a trend. Right. Like so these new platforms coming up and providing users with a different, alternative solution to legal representation than what we’ve been used to up until recently. So that I think it’s something also to be taken into consideration, because now that a lot of legal services have been normalized to be done online, primarily because of covid-19, these kind of platforms can also gain relevancy because of the same thing. Now, Grace, two other examples that I gave here on ways that you can diversify. So video, it’s been around forever, like to say on twenty, twenty one. Hey, have you guys heard about video marketing? It’s been around for a while, but the thing is like different things that you create with your video marketing. Right. So the Q&A thing’s been there forever, but there is a lot of new creative things that you can do. Really, the sky’s the limit, and be creative and explore and see what other industries are doing and see how you can adapt to your practice area, to your law firm. Right. Don’t just limit yourself to do what your competitors or other law firms are doing. Here is an area that has a lot of room to get creative, Grace. So I think video there is a lot to be done. But with that being said, incorporating it to your website in general, have more pages that actually have video content along with written content is a good idea, is a good mix and as a whole, a sturdy strategy to continue persuading. Now, they also mentioned webinars. I think we’ve seen the rise of webinars over the past eight months and I think they’ll stay around. I don’t think they’re going to replace in-person events, but it will certainly give an opportunity for targeting audiences that you wouldn’t potentially have access to only through in-person events. So I would one hundred percent think, you know, don’t dismiss that because of on twenty twenty one there might be a light at the end of the tunnel of the pandemic. People will forget completely about webinars. Webinars will continue to be powerful. It’s a great way to connect with potential clients. I’m thinking about immigration law. I’m talking about bankruptcy law. I’m thinking about all of these different practice areas where people have a lot of questions, have a lot of interest, and they want to inform themselves potentially before actually buying. So huge potential on webinars and live streams Grace. What do you think?

Grace: [00:25:59] I agree completely. I’ve always kind of been a big proponent of webinars anyway. And really any method that you can easily transfer information to somebody in the way that they want it and I feel like webinars, video, podcasts, there are just different methods of communication with people that they can now absorb this information in the way they want to write. I mean, that’s why we created the podcast, was because we knew it would make it easier for people to kind of sit on the road or listen in their car about different things. And so that to me is the same thing for the law firm. You need to do the same thing for your client, create videos, webinars, and be creative about it. You know, this cookie cutter stuff that everybody does is all well and good. But obviously we need something different, right? Especially in this age of covid, where everybody’s online, everybody’s dealing with everything online almost completely. Well, you can get even more creative, right. Let’s use that to our advantage rather than taking it as a detriment.

Liel: [00:26:59] Yes. Grace.

Grace: [00:27:00] So I think that brings us to our. Would that be the last one pretty much.

Liel: [00:27:06] It would be Grace.

Grace: [00:27:07] All right. So our last point and the last number seven on the article is about they call it brand awareness. But as you and I spoke before we started this podcast today, for us, it’s about community outreach and engagement. Right. That’s being part of or making it part of your brand. It’s not even to me, it’s not even about a brand. It’s the story and the community outreach and who you are as part of the community that you are working in. And that’s to me, what No.7 means is focus on putting the client first, making sure you’re engaging with your community and helping the people in your community, because not only does it help you, but that’s who you are as a firm and it helps them, of course. And your community will always come back to you for the advice, the help, and everything that you’ve been providing this whole time in the community outreach that you’re doing.

Liel: [00:27:59] Yes, Grace, you’ve set it right and it’s kind of like an expectation nowadays, right, particularly as you are scaling up, the expectation is that you’re not just a service provider, but you’re also a giver. You’re also there to proactively engage with your community and do work to help the overall well-being of the community in which you operate. And I think that’s already in the expectations of users of communities as a whole. And to be very honest, when it comes down to the legal industry, let’s be you know, let’s face it, like there is our reputation problem that still needs to be fixed and that lawyers not necessarily enjoy from the get-go good name, because unfortunately, it’s just being know associated with the wrong kind of things over the years. And so you are starting off with that disadvantage. But by actually working through this kind of community outreach initiatives, not only are you actually fixing that, but you’re actually increasing your brand awareness within your market and you’re actually generating goodwill amongst your market to then want to work with you the day when they’ll need you if they’ll ever need you, or the day that someone will reach out to them and ask, hey, do you know someone that could help in this that event, Grace? And so that’s something that it has been around for a while. The whole idea of working out with brands that have a model that, you know, when you work with those, something good happens somewhere else is been completely normalized. And people kind of like expect to see that happening up to a certain extent. And this is the way that you get that add on to your brand, to your law firm. And it’s extremely effective as a PR strategy and most important of it all, just positioning yourself.

Grace: [00:30:10] So there’s an actual term in accounting that they can quantify for what we’re talking about. It’s called goodwill. So the company’s goodwill and it’s an actual line item on an accounting spreadsheet, a performance statement, and everything. If you have the built-up goodwill of the brand, that’s a monetary value to your firm. So, yes, it’s exactly what we’re talking about here. Create that goodwill and it will help you and your client, which is your ultimate goal.

Liel: [00:30:41] I 100 percent agree, Grace. And it’s actually yes. As you said, it’s something that you can quantify in terms of value and capitalize on it. One hundred percent. So I think that’s a very, very, very powerful point for being the last one.

Liel: [00:30:57] So we went through the list. So let’s move on and boil it down to a few takeaways. Grace, what what what would you say? Number one.

Grace: [00:31:06] Number one is kind of, they even kind of say it in their final paragraph. It’s not a line item, but it’s roll with it. Right. They say roll with the volatility and find ways to emerge stronger. We’ve been saying that from the beginning of covid. Right. Adapt, roll with it. Do what you have to do to adapt, change and move with your consumer, with the consumer behavior and do what they need to do, what you need to do to be in front of them when they need you. And in those micro-moments that we’ve talked about to me, that’s number one. Roll with it. 

Liel: [00:31:38] I agree, Grace. What would you make your point number two? 

Grace: [00:31:41] So I say point number two is a kind of a mix of diversifying your content strategy together with making sure that you’re there when the client needs you. Just the overall point number two is make sure that your content speaks to the user. That’s the most important thing. Whatever strategy you do, whatever you’re putting out there, any information that you’re putting out there with your brand name on it, it needs to speak to the user, don’t do sales pitches and make sure it’s authentic. So that to me is point number two.

Liel: [00:32:13] Yeah, absolutely great. And I’ll just add on there, you know, the user experience side of things, the deliverability needs to be great. The calls to action need to be clear and intuitive. And whatever happens when they get triggered need to continue that same line of efficiency of user-friendliness and make it very clear to the user where they are and what to expect as they continue to move forward in the engagement with your brand. Grace. So a very good point there. Last one.

Grace: [00:32:46] So for me, the last one is kind of touching on Facebook and ads in general. Make sure that whatever strategy you create, whether it’s Facebook, whether it’s Google ads, whatever you’re doing, that it’s a cohesive strategy all across the board. You include your internal linking structures that we’ve always talked about, you’re including videos, you’re including podcasts if you can, and have the bandwidth for it. You’re including Facebook ads. If it makes sense, as we spoke about during this podcast, that you have a super well-defined strategy with behaviors and look alike lists and the reach that you’re supposed to have for the conversion, because all this information is given to you on Facebook when you’re trying to actually set up an ad, you’ll know that before you get to the end. So everything you do when it comes to your strategy needs to be well-honed, created, and then defined based on your customer, your client, their journey and how they get to you and what they want to see, because you can’t expect that you’re going to throw ten thousand, twenty thousand dollars at Facebook and actually get the reach you need if you don’t have the strategy built out the way you’re supposed to. What do you think about that one?

Liel: [00:33:54] Yeah, I agree. One hundred percent. And actually, going back to what you were saying and you mentioned at some point, internal linking, I 100 percent agree. And that goes back to the semantic search part of it. Right.

Liel: [00:34:03] We’re way too focused on, you know, link building and how many links outside are pointing out to you and stuff. And people have a terrible structure inside their website, on Page SEO. So I would one hundred percent emphasize and put a lot of focus moving forward on your internal linking as a way of helping search engines better understand your site structure and what information do you have and how it can relate to the search intent of the users, Grace, and everything else that you say there about Facebook and such. I agree with you. So definitely a lot to be looking into. 2021, I guess, Grace. My only point here that I would like to close down on is like 2021 is not going to be just like a heart stop in 2020, and then a brand new beginning in 2021. The reality is that in the situation in which we are right now, a lot of what we are still living today in the midst of a pandemic is going to carry forward into 2021. And so to think that you need to hold up and just start fresh on 2021 and you need things there. And so you’ll be disappointed because if you don’t start working on these things right now, you’re going to be way behind when you actually want to have an impact. So all of these trends happening for 2021, you should have already started working on them six months ago. And if you haven’t, then one hundred percent start your journey right now. So by 2021, you can increase your chances of being competitive. Grace. So with that being said, are we going to be back next week with an amazing episode?

Grace: [00:35:49] Let’s do it. All right.

Liel: [00:35:51] So Grace, let’s do that. And thank you so much. Stay safe and we’ll talk soon.

Grace: [00:35:55] You tool Liel.

Liel: [00:35:58] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers, leave us a review, and send us your questions to ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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