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S3 E28: CPAP and CoolSculpting


Weighing machine
ICP Logo

S3 E28: CPAP and CoolSculpting




Weighing machine

While some mass torts emerge in an almost predictable fashion, some pop up unexpectedly and quickly climb through their ranks of most promising lawsuits. This week in our conversation, we look at two new nominees with the potential of becoming the next big thing, introducing CoolSculpting and CPAP.

Grace explains how her firm stays up to date about potential new torts and how early they initiate the process of generating awareness to get a sense of the impact and potential a mass tort has.

From how to navigate through the early stages of a potential tort to keeping track of the new developments and considerations that will determine the effectiveness of a marketing strategy, this conversation about two up-and-coming torts shares it all.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] On July 15th, The Boston Globe published an article about Philips being sued by consumers after recalling millions of sleep apnea machines in June. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Espanol How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And this is In Camera podcast, where we like to arrive early to the discovery of a new Mass Tort. Welcome to In Camera podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations, Grace. Welcome back. How are you today?

Grace: [00:00:58] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:00:59] Great. Grace, thank you very much for asking. How’s your week been going so far?

Grace: [00:01:04] Busy, busy, as I’m sure yours has been. How about yours?

Liel: [00:01:07] Well, thank you very much for asking, Grace. I did not plan that question so I can get asked back. But since you are already asking, I do want to tell you that this week has been a very exciting one. As you very well know, we launched our book,  Beyond Se Habla Espanol: How lawyers win the Hispanic market, this week. And I’m super, super proud and thankful to anyone who bought it and reviewed it already. But we’ve actually landed on the best sellers list, Grace, in Amazon. So that’s actually quite a remarkable accomplishment for ourselves. We did not embark into this project thinking or necessarily aiming for that, but it feels really good to see that the book has been well-received and already starting to read positive comments of how people are, you know, responding to this, to the content that we created. There are. So it’s great, Grace. It’s a fantastic feeling. And so, yeah, it’s been a busy week, but it’s been a really enlightening week for us here, at Nanato media. So how about you? I know you guys went to AAJ this week. It took place. And again, we’re always recording this episode a week before it gets published or a few days before it gets published. So AAJ took place mid-July now and persist was there, correct?

Grace: [00:02:29] Correct. Yes, we were there as the persist group. It took place in Las Vegas this year right at the Cosmopolitan, which is different for AJ, particularly for the time of year. So, yeah, it was a pretty exciting conference. I didn’t physically go this time. Just my face was there on the booth. But, you know, I did hear that there was, it seems to be a lot of people are just coming back, right? They want to go back to the norm, get back to their usual of learning things at AAJ, because AAJ has always been, in my opinion, a good place for lawyers to learn and sort of get their CLE credits and get up to date on everything that’s going on with regards to the American Association of Justice. So, you know, as the lake law firm and as Gacovino and Law, like we’ve always supported AAJ. So to us, it’s you know, it just makes sense to always be there. And that’s kind of why we went and also, you know, obviously to try and drum up some business development and just talk to people about the different things that we offer.

Liel: [00:03:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it looks like they did, you know, they went back to having a live exhibit hole in there. It was a hybrid band. Right. It was also available for those people who could not travel or did not want to travel to join the conference online. So I think, you know, AAJ has been very accessible in the way that they’ve approached going back to normal by making it sure that they are catering to to to all types of needs that are still around in these times. But I must say, I am looking forward to hopefully next year on their next winter conference that they will have for it to move back to its to to its normal format as a whole and also potentially get back to to to have a big AAJ conference, which I think is one of the things AAJ is known for is for really gathering crowds. Big group of, as you say, kind of an interesting mix always of lawyers. You have very young lawyers. You have also very well-established and experienced lawyers all come together. And so it’s always an interesting place to go and meet and network. And I must say I’m personally looking forward to that. So, yeah, thanks for sharing Grace. And Grace, so today we are about to have one of those conversations that personally are amongst my favorite. And that’s kind of like they’re really, really, really early emergence stages of Mass Torts that are just kind of like getting a little bit of attention, if any attention at all. And that’s because they’re so recent or they’re just beginning to transition into class actions or Mass Torts. So Grace, because you’re the expert here on all of that, please tell us, what are we going to be learning about today?

Grace: [00:05:32] Ok, so, you know, I always get to give my disclaimer. I’m not an attorney. I play one on TV and on this podcast now.

Liel: [00:05:40] Exactly.

Grace: [00:05:42] So we’re going to be talking about the two emerging Torts of CoolSculpting and then the C Pap ventilator machine. So I know we kind of you and I kind of mentioned this before we started and you hadn’t heard about it yet, and it’s because it really is truly emerging and it really just kind of came out of both of them. But one in particular, the CoolSculpting is very, very new. So which one do you want me to talk about first?

Liel: [00:06:10] Let’s start with a ventilator, Grace, because now that I hear it for a second time, I kind of think that at some point you may have mentioned it. But again, I remember maybe when he was last brought up, which may have been on an offline conversation, not necessarily on a podcast. It could have been that it was, it had some complexity attached to it, and so I’ll stop guessing and let you explain what is it that is happening with this particular one?

Grace: [00:06:43] So they’re talking specifically about certain models of the Phillips C Pap ventilator. So the ventilators for those with basically lung issues and there’s a specific item or part of the product that is degrading and that is called the basically it’s called a polyester based polyurethane. So it’s like the foam or the sound damping foam that they use. It’s apparently falling apart and it’s starting to cause gases that are being released. And if anybody knows anything about ventilators, ventilators are meant to help people with lung issues.

Liel: [00:07:26] Yeah.

Grace: [00:07:26] So this is kind of doing almost the reverse. So there was this massive recall of the Philipps ventilator CPAP and also BiPAP recall this happened, I want to say not that long ago. I’ll give you the exact date in a moment. But that’s what it basically falls under is it has to do with exposure to this diethylene glycol that’s being released or the gas that’s being released in there resulted in 115 deaths in a two month period. So, yeah, this was back a while back, by the way. So this is when they first had the ventilators kind of coming out. And when they realized that that had happened, the FDA took care of it, said, you know, there’s other things that have to be done.

Grace: [00:08:14] You need to fix this. And then they so they fixed whatever the problem was. Again, this is back in nineteen thirties, so ventilators have been around a very long time. OK, so after that point they were like, OK, FDA said, hey, it’s a toxic chemical, you can’t use this. So make sure that you remove this from your ventilators because it’s a gas that could harm people. So given this history of diethylene glycol, hopefully I’m saying exactly the way it’s supposed to be pronounced, diethylene glycol exposure in the U.S. and the recent exposure of humans, diethylene glycol, it’s horrible problems that this is going to create for Philips, right. Because it’s on the list of. What’s the word that they use, the FDA uses a specific word that they say that this is on that list of volatile organic compounds, VOCs.

Liel: [00:09:12] OK. 

Grace: [00:09:13] So I know that we’re talking a little too scientific, but obviously, you know, a lot of these masters have to do with a very specific science of what it’s calling.

Liel: [00:09:22] Grace, you’re you’re making me wonder here if you don’t have, like, a hidden life as a pharmacist or some sort of physicist or a chemist, because you’re you’re popularisation in confidence in pronouncing all of these different products and chemicals and agents is quite commendable. I admire you, Grace.

Grace: [00:09:44] Thank you, Liel. So I’ll give you guys a little bit about why I can speak that way. My father is disabled. He has no large intestine. So since I was a child, I used to actually review his medications and see how they would interact with each other. This was before they had any idea about what IBS Crohn’s disease or any of those things even existed. So I used to make sure that the interactions between the chemical compounds of one pharmaceutical that he was taking wouldn’t interact with another or would negatively interact within his body. And I know that that’s what doctors are supposed to do. But I, you know, there’s nobody that will take care of your family as well as you can. And I have caught a few times where the interactions would be more negative than the benefits of taking that particular medication for my father. So, yeah, that’s kind of why I know a lot. And I’m able to specifically use these terms and feel fairly confident that I’m using the right pronunciation even of those words. Just so you know.

Liel: [00:10:50] Thank you for sharing. That’s a great thing. Every day I reaffirm my belief that you’re one of the nicest and more giving people in this world. So that just doesn’t surprise me. Just reiterate what I already know about you.

Grace: [00:11:08] Thank you, Liel. I appreciate that. So let’s get back to the Phillips recall. So on June 14, 2021, Phillips issues a recall notification to essentially mitigate and this is the verbiage they’re using, mitigate the potential health risks related to the sound abatement foam component in their sleep and respiratory care devices. Mind you, again, we go back to the fact that this is a ventilator. It’s supposed to help them breathe, not actually cause even more harm than it’s helping. So that’s basically what’s going on with it. It’s there’s diethylene glycol. It’s part of the VOC or volatile compounds that is on the list of issues by the FDA. And that is what they found out was being released in that foam over time integration when it was degrading. So that’s what’s going on with that specific one. You have any questions about it?

Liel: [00:12:07] So one hundred and thirty people are dead because of that. Attributed to that? 

Grace: [00:12:10] Yes. 

Liel: [00:12:14] OK. And so what’s happening now?

Grace: [00:12:18] So after the recall now, they are at this point, they’re basically pulling all the information together. OK. And when you put the information together, they the next steps in any mass tort has to do with creating the aggregating the data so that they find out how many people have been harmed by this specific product, in this case, its client adverse action reporting. So they report this to the FDA. The FDA pulls together all this information and then from there, it kind of goes to the different law firms that are involved in it and can get involved in it. And they decide from there the bellweather trials and all of the process that gets involved with a mass tort. So I don’t know if we really want to get into, like, how it becomes a mass tort, but it usually starts with a recall. And that’s where they are right now, gathering data and then figuring out where it’s going to go from there.

Liel: [00:13:19] Grace, is there already some data available?

Grace: [00:13:24] That’s hard for me to say only because it’s such a new thing. And the recall just happened on June 30th, as a matter of fact. So I’m sure these are registered devices and they have to be given to you by, you know, basically a doctor has to almost prescribe this ventilator to you. So because of that, I’m sure there’s numbers and people are aware of them. But now we’re at the data gathering point. So they’re going to need to provide all the client adverse action reporting. And that usually comes from the doctor as well, not just the clients. So doctors can also report directly to the FDA that their clients are experiencing X, Y, Z issues.

Liel: [00:14:06] So from a marketing standpoint, it sounds here that it’s a very traceable. Kind of a tort like you can very, very specifically and granularly pinpoint who are actually potentially being affected by it because this is not a consumer product that you can just go get it, you know, consume it. And then and then nobody knows. And there’s really no recourse but of the interactions that you had with it other than maybe you know, your your receipts or that sort of thing. And so in this case, is it common that the doctors are the ones that are going to be kind of putting forward the lists as to who are potentially likely to be a victim for it? How did the lawyers get to become to represent these victims? Like how does that connection happen?

Grace: [00:15:06] So, again, because this is so new, but most lawyers, I’d say, basically know when there’s an emerging tort. And again, it kind of comes from the idea of knowing that there’s a recall happening. And if a recall happens because of product liability, that’s what it falls under. So law firms that are involved in Mass Torts as a whole and product liability specifically, they know when there’s something coming down the pipe or a lot of times they’re actually contacted by somebody in their world of clients and they say, hey, you know, I saw this recall for my ventilator. What’s going on? You know, that kind of thing. So it’s a bunch of different data points that they kind of get aggregated and people that are aware of these things that are happening see them. And so I can tell you that with the CPAP up there, while there is no official MDL, currently, the lawsuits have been consolidated and they already requested to have them combined into an MDL. So. Right. They’re moving pretty quickly. And I think that’s because of what you said. Again, this is more conjecture rather than fact. I think it’s because of what you said. They are aware of these things and they saw all these things happening. And because it’s coming from a doctor and this is something that you can actually say rather than like round up. Right. We’re just people just go by this. No, this is not given to them. So the doctors are monitoring their patients already.

Liel: [00:16:40] Yeah.

Grace: [00:16:40] And the doctors wouldn’t have known necessarily that their ventilator was the one causing this issue unless they saw this recall. So I think it’s going to come from both. I think it’s going to come from people using it and also from the doctors saying, hey, my clients, I saw this device was recalled. My client was experiencing some of these associated injuries that people are talking about that you got, and that’s why it was being recalled. So I think it may be a combination.

Liel: [00:17:10] Right. Because I’m just assuming the doctors obviously cannot share their patients information with the law firm. Of course they can right. But without them, obviously, before becoming a client, I’m assuming so I still think that there will still need to be some level of marketing here, Don, to raise awareness and then obviously encourage the patients to file their cases because the lists don’t seem to if I understood correctly, there doesn’t seem to be a path to get those. And even if they’re where it would be solicitation. Right to. Right. Hey, we see that you’ve been here, you’re eligible for these lawsuits, that is not allowed.

Grace: [00:17:52] No. No solicitation. So you’re 100 percent right. It’s in the awareness phase now. Right. Because the recall went out at most. What you can do is let other people that know that this recall went out. And if they were hurt by this recall or that particular ventilator, then they need to call to call us. Right. Call the law firm, contact that are aware of this issue and have the knowledge to be able to get you through and get you through this particular case in litigation type

Liel: [00:18:25] Even though one hundred and thirty is a lot. It’s not the same when one hundred and thirty is out of ten thousand or one hundred and thirties out of a million. Right.

Grace: [00:18:36] So if we talk about statistics, right. Sample size.

Liel: [00:18:41] Exactly, and then where these people are located, are there any patterns, have they been more widely used. 

Grace: [00:18:50] In particular cases.

Liel: [00:18:52] Yeah. Particular cities, institutions during a particular period of time. Have they did some people stop using them, whether they were recalled or not, after a certain period of time? I think that’s that’s what’s going to make these critical, essential, fundamental to be able to then run any type of campaign on these because. It’s already such a specific qualifier that it’s going to take quite a bit of research and investigation, what are your thoughts?

Grace: [00:19:26] I agree with you completely on that particularly. But the good part about this in the sense that a good part, as in you’re able to help them a little bit more than something like Elmiron as an example, because it’s related to the disease. Right. So if they have a ventilator and they’re having issues breathing and they’re using a ventilator, at least they’ll have an awareness of, oh, my goodness, this is not working for me. Whereas with like Elmiron was a bladder medication that was affecting the eyes and your macular degeneration. So there was no connection, at least for the individual. So the awareness was very difficult to create or even have people understand, even from the doctor side of things, because it was a macular specialist versus a bladdered the primary physician or general practitioner or someone that specializes in, you know, in that part of the body, whereas this one, it’s ventilator, ventilator issues, lung issues. So I do feel like this is, all of those data points are going to make a big difference as to how you’re going to target or don’t target or who you’re going to speak to and who’s going to reach out to you in terms of clients for this particular tort. Agree?

Liel: [00:20:47] Yeah, I do agree. So we have one more and let’s hear about it.

Grace: [00:20:54] So this one to me is kind of I don’t know if you call it exciting or what, but it’s very interesting. Let’s put it that is interesting. So many of you guys have gals or guys have heard, of CoolSculpting, potentially. Right. So CoolSculpting. Like, I should probably tell you what it is. Right. It’s those advertising advertisements that you might have seen on TV where they talk about nonsurgical fat removal. We freeze your fat. It’s a procedure called CoolSculpting where they’re supposed to freeze the fat off of your body.

Liel: [00:21:31] Right. We’ve all heard it, Grace. Yeah.

Grace: [00:21:35] I got to admit, I looked at it. It did seem like a pretty good idea to not have to work to get the fat off. But, hey, we wouldn’t

Liel: [00:21:44] Reality settled. You realize, like, there is no way there is just no way this actually can lead to a good outcome. And as we are learning, because we’re talking about it as being a potential class action, or Mass Tort. It turned out that it wasn’t great.

Grace: [00:22:03] So thank goodness I never did it right and none of my family members did it either, because I’ve always looked at things that anything that you have to do, not always. Right. Generally speaking, anything you have to do to reduce your weight that is quick and in a hurry and is not an actual life. Change is not going to work. Right. That’s what yo yo diets do. So yeah, CoolSculpting. I mean, just the longevity of it didn’t seem like it was a good idea. So but hey, the promise behind CoolSculpting is that it was going to reduce your fat from twenty to twenty five percent in a single session. That’s a quarter of your body fat. That’s a lot. Yeah. And that will entice just about anybody. Right. I mean, you got to get rid of that stubborn body fat and then if you can’t get it to go away with regular exercise and diet. So this is it for you.

Liel: [00:22:54] Well, you sure you never wrote copy Grace for these for these advertisers? Because you seem very fluent.

Grace: [00:23:04] Well, I got to say, I acted a bit. I am not just a regular nerd, but I am a marketing and advertising nerd. So I actually go back and listen to full commercials because I am always so interested to see what people think is a good way of marketing something jingles and why do they do this? So I got to admit, I mean, the cool sculpting commercials are pretty amazing. They they were great when they came out. And who doesn’t want to get rid of stubbled body fat? Everybody does. So they just use really good words.

Liel: [00:23:38] That’s true.

Grace: [00:23:39] So this was the problem, guys, as great as it seemed, as wonderful as it sounded. It does have very serious side effects that a lot of people weren’t made aware of or didn’t even know about. Even the facilities. A lot of them weren’t made aware of the serious side effects and how to properly deal with it. This condition is what they’re calling the issue behind cool sculpting. And that is paradoxical. Adipose Hypoplasia. The acronym People use PAH. So basically, according to the cool sculpting, medical device manufacturers, other side effects. Besides that PAH. is late onset pain that can last for weeks. Right. Because, I mean, they’re freezing your body kind of as the idea development of a new or worsened pre-existing hernia. I don’t think a lot of people knew about that one, hyper pigmentation, which is like when your skin, you know, you get some weird colors and issues in your skin, that’s hyper pigmentation, frostbite or freeze burn. I mean, very interesting, serious side effects, not such great things, right?

Liel: [00:24:58] No, not at all.

Grace: [00:25:00] So there was actually a law firm that brought it to the table when one of their clients that they had as I was saying before, sometimes your own clients can come to you because they trust you, right? They know like and trust you. And they’re like, hey, have you heard about this? I experienced this after doing this procedure.

Grace: [00:25:20] That seems like something’s wrong. Well, that’s what happened to this law firm. They were told by a client of theirs that they said, hey, I, I got this really rare side effect. You know, the doctors didn’t even really haven’t heard about it. They say it doesn’t happen often. And it was called paradoxal adipose hypoplasia. I’m sure they said PAH as clients, because not very many people could probably even pronounce that side effect. Yeah. When they came to them, they’re like, wait, that’s just seems odd. And so that firm actually went in and investigated to see what this rare quote unquote, because that’s how they labeled. It was a rare side effect. They realized it wasn’t rare at all and that the manufacturer of cool sculpting. Allegedly did not adequately warn physicians, the doctors that were actually applying this, the severity, permanency or frequency of this very, very serious side effect. So that’s usually how something becomes a class action, right? They were failure to warn of the defect, failure to warn negligence. So there’s a couple of reasons why something becomes a Mass Tort. And in this case, they are alleging that they failed to warn the practitioners that use the cool sculpting device of this very serious side effect and how often it actually does happen.

Liel: [00:26:44] Yeah, so they minimize its impact.

Grace: [00:26:47] Exactly. And the in their mind, the biggest problem that they’re alleging happened was that many medical providers that operated this medical device didn’t actually have an adequate understanding of the serious adverse effect. And they also don’t know what they call the incidence rate. Right. I mean, as a doctor, you need to know the incidence rate of a side effect because you need to warn properly your patients of the device, the procedure, whatever it is you’re using or doing to them so that they can make the decision after being properly warned.

Liel: [00:27:19] Yeah. One hundred percent. So and with a gravity, with the gravity…

Grace: [00:27:24] Of the situation.

Liel: [00:27:25] Yeah, totally.

Grace: [00:27:26] And sign off on the fact that regardless of those side effects, I’m still willing to move forward with it. And that that would be adequately warned. But in this case they weren’t even they were relying on the manufacturer to tell them as Dr.. How that this is happening more often than they’re saying. So like with any medical device. Right. That says that’s what it’s always supposed to happen. Doctors using the cool sculpting device on patients must understand all aspects of the device, including any risks. So apparently they were relying on the manufacturer to tell them crucial information. And unfortunately, they believe that they did not disclose, the manufacturers did not disclose this vital information for them to properly warn. Yeah. So it’s at the manufacturer level. That that’s happening.

Liel: [00:28:16] And so where where are we right now? Do we know how many cases have emerged that have reported the symptoms? Is there any data already out there?

Grace: [00:28:27] So there’s not a whole lot because this actually right now is becoming a class action. The idea is that I think it will become a mass tort. Again, this is more of a gut feeling from seeing things happening, not specific facts or anything like that. But, you know, I think the difference, if most of you don’t know a class action and a mass tort. A class action is everybody kind of got hurt by the same way in the same kind of hurt. Right. Like the Takata airbags. I’ll give you an example. Takata airbags. Right. That’s a device that failed. And everybody, no matter what, that device failed the same way for everybody, whereas cool sculpting the injuries that people are going to be getting off of, cool sculpting device are going to be different. And the severity of those injuries could be different, which is why I believe that this is going to become a mass tort, not necessarily a class action. 

Liel: [00:29:23] Grace, help me clear out something while you’re in the class action. In my story differentiation. I was also under the impression that the class actions are when people get injured or suffer some sort of loss as a consequence of a single event. Right. But it’s just a scale like, for instance, I’m going to use the Florida building collapse of a few weeks ago. That is a class action, correct?

Grace: [00:29:48] Correct.

Liel: [00:29:49] Everyone who’s going to be a victim, there are those who suffer the loss of someone or those who actually survived it. There is still going to be plaintiffs of this class action. It’s not going to be like that doesn’t qualify. Doesn’t transition into a mass torts. Is that correct?

Grace: [00:30:08] That’s correct. That’s correct.

Liel: [00:30:10] And so in this case, this is being called a class action, even though several doctors in several different locations have been using this procedure and this technology or equipment to perform these treatments into patients. But even though it’s happening at different times, it happens in different places. It single under the category of class action because…

Grace: [00:30:38] So my understanding of the reason, it’s why it’s under class action is because it’s a single device. It’s not, I’m sorry, it’s cool sculpting. It’s the specific issue product device that is being used that is causing this problem. So I believe that’s why it’s a class action right now. OK, we can add it to the episode notes later. I’m going to find out from an actual attorney to give information as to why this one is classified as a class action versus a mass tort.

Liel: [00:31:06] The reason why I’m asking is because I’m curious here is if if right now they’re going specifically after a particular clinic, a particular location where people there are the ones who are getting injured. But it sounds like it’s not the case, like this is already an issue that has spread. Yeah, OK. All right. Interesting. So back to the data. What do we know right now? How many people may potentially have been impacted by this? You say it’s too early, but what do we know?

Grace: [00:31:35] So on August 27, 2020, the law firm I mentioned actually filed a class action lawsuit against the manufacturers of cool sculpting. All right. For those who are suffering. So maybe this is why it’s a. Not a mass tort, it’s a class action is because they’re specifying a single issue that is happening, right, a single event, like you said, paradoxical adipose hypoplasia is what they’re looking for as the single issue that is hurting all these people. So that’s I just saw it right now and I just actually read it on the lawyer’s website. And so that’s why it’s a class action, because it’s a single event, like you said, single issue, single event, single problem that they’re claiming is happening because of the cool sculpting. So right now, I don’t have a whole lot of information on the number of plaintiffs or any of that because we personally are just getting into cool sculpting and doing advertising and not advertising, but more bringing awareness to people so that they understand that this is an issue and if they’ve been hurt, that they come to us. So I don’t have a lot of numbers right now. That actually would be a great follow up later because I am starting to get numbers on CPAP and information and I’m also starting to get more information on cool sculpting. I’ll probably have that in a couple of weeks, not days. But CPAP, I have more information and I’ll have that on our next call.

Liel: [00:33:04] That’s actually really interesting Grace, and I think particularly for CoolSculpting, it’s going to be a very interesting. Master or class action, whatever ends up being the destiny of it to market for, because I think you have many different buyer personas that could have potentially been impacted by this, it would be interesting to see if it’s affecting more likely a particular type of person with a particular type of qualities. And that’s going to help a lot in building your audience, your segment. But I think people need to really keep an open mind as to who could have potentially been the victims of this procedure, because it’s not as narrow as some people may already start thinking, it’s probably quite diverse and quite spread. So I’m yeah, I’m looking forward to monitoring this.

Grace: [00:34:06] I’m not going to tiptoe around what you just said. I’m actually going to say because I’m a female and I can do this. Generally speaking, I know what you’re saying. I do feel like people will automatically, in their mind, go to the demographic of potentially overweight people who, you know, usually females and that type of thing. Now, I got to tell you, cool sculpting appealed to a lot a much broader audience than people realize, particularly because of the way their advertising went about trying to appeal to people that not just overweight, but mostly people that were trying to get rid of body fat that they hadn’t been able to for years. So it was also people that just wanted extra like love handles to come off that may have been healthy or work out or, you know, people that they just want a better body image. And so those people will also be part of that demographic. And so I 100 percent agree with you. Don’t automatically assume that, you know, who is going to be a part of this class action.

Liel: [00:35:09] Right. But, of course, I mean, it’s going to be very important to to first identify what are the qualifiers, what are what’s the criteria that needs to be met and that may potentially further narrow down how to segment these campaigns. Right. Well, Grace, thank you so much for sharing this. As I’ve said, it’s always so interesting when you’re hearing for the first time about, you know, these early stages, these early phases of how a mass tort or a class action is being identified, that it’s not necessarily that evident for the rest of the world. Right. And so we’re looking forward to keeping our fingers on the pulse of this to see where do they get into what they develop. So Grace. Let’s talk a little bit about a few takeaways. I’ll start if you want to get in shape, just workout and eat healthy food. No, but seriously, seriously, let’s I mean, you know, it’s been more so kind of like an awareness conversation here, but what are a few takeaways that we can learn out of what we’re seeing or the way these mass torts are developing?

Grace: [00:36:15] So my first takeaway, honestly, would be if you want to get involved in mass torts, because that’s what this whole conversation has been about, is to specific emerging markets towards sign up for the FDA recalls, because you actually have a little bit of a leg up in terms of information that’s coming down the pipeline. And you can kind of make those decisions on your own that you see things happening. And as a lawyer, you have the background to make those assessments and logically determine that this is starting to become potentially an emerging story. So I would sign up for Google Alerts, sign up for FDA alerts and just, you know, start literally getting used to being informed of things that are happening from the FDA, because that’ll be kind of your first notice, in a way.

Liel: [00:37:04] Yeah, that makes one hundred percent sense, Grace, right there. So already there, a great place, a great venue to keep track of what’s happening. And you’ve brought this up before, not as a takeaway, but how you keep yourself up to date. And so I think that’s a great, great tip there. What else can be done?

Grace: [00:37:22] So if you’re not involved in mass torts but you want to be and you feel like you’re too overloaded with information, because when we all kind of are at this point, right, with everything going remote, everyone’s constantly on their phones. There’s no break from information, reach out to a resource. And I do say this all the time. You and I both have used to takeaway multiple times, but I cannot say it enough. Reach out to resources because exactly like Liel said, you can’t assume certain demographics, but you can still specifically target what you are, what you need to target once you have data that gives you that information and you can’t come up with that on your own, a lot of times as a lawyer, you’re working in your business or the business of law or you’re actually doing trials. That’s not necessarily something that you don’t have to spend your time in perse, but you can’t focus on. And if you can’t focus on it right, you need to speak to somebody who can and can help you get there. So reach out. There are resources out there. If you’re listening to this podcast, reach out to myself or Liel, you know, what is it?

Liel: [00:38:33] Reach out to Grace. If you call me and you ask me to do to help you identify what are going to be the sources of these types of cases at this point, I’m as lost as you are. I need for the lawyers to get informed and then we can definitely help them out to fine-tune those campaigns. So but one hundred percent. You’re right, Grace. I mean, the leaders of mass torts, which is an organization headed by you, by purses, and there’s other resources out there that are constantly putting out content and webinars and conferences to give you the greatest and the latest on every single one of these mass torts so you can A learn, B find out which one are the right ones for your law firm or meet and network with the right co-counsel or invest in one of these opportunities. So it’s definitely, you know, figuring out a way into a place where you can figure out what’s going to be your roadmap into a particular mass tort or mass torts in general. So that’s a great starting place. Great. Well, we have room for one more. Anything in particular, Greece?

Grace: [00:39:50] I think the last one would be define what your role is going to be if you do want to deal with mass torts. In other words, figure out whether you’re going to be the investor, whether you’re going to be the one that’s litigating. If you’re going to be the one who’s just going to be doing advertising, figure out what your role is based on the tort and your interest in how involved you’re going to be on that part of it. And I know that sounds very basic, but it’s interesting how many times I’ve found that. I don’t think a lot of attorneys necessarily understand the process of the mass tort perse if they’ve never done it. And so there’s so many different ways that you can get involved on a mass tort. Just like you said, Liel, you could be an investor, you could be a litigator, you could cocounsel with someone else. So make sure you know where you want to be. After talking to the right people. What do you want to be involved in? How deeply do you want to get involved in it and what your role is going to be? I think that’s, again, very basic, but I feel like it’s important to mention because I find a lot of attorneys get lost in the shuffle. Don’t you realize where they can best be served for themselves and for the client?

Liel: [00:41:04] Right. Yeah, it’s there is a lot of venues that you can take. It’s not an all or nothing. And I think that’s great. That’s great. And that’s what makes my sports unique for lawyers, because it’s kind of like very, very specific for them and tailored and available for them. But the decision as to how they want to approach it needs to come from them and for some is very evident because it’s not something that they have prepared themselves to handle. So the decision is kind of like already made for themselves. They can either market invest or something along those lines. Right. Whereas in some other cases, like if you’re an injury lawyer or such, you may be able to do some of the legal work. And so I think, you know, it’s very important. As you said, you need to do your everything like your cost analysis. Like, is it something that it’s worth it for me to try to handle in-house? Or can I get a better return on investment by investing or co-counseling and sharing the responsibilities and the costs and other things so that I can focus on the other things that I have going on? So I think you’re basically in another way, reminding us that a mass tort is a way of diversifying here, but how you want to use it to diversify, you know, there is different levels. And so that’s for a law firm to be determined. But then again. Right, you start by getting formed building awareness. That’s what this podcast is for in a way or another kind of like share those base-level, entry level insights so that you can then take them to other places based on your research. And potentially find the answers that you’re looking for. 

Liel: [00:43:00] Grace. Thank you so much. What a great conversation. I learned a lot, as always. And great thing is that we’re going to be back in exactly one week doing the same thing. So I’m looking forward to it.

Grace: [00:43:12] Same here, Liel. It’s been a pleasure.

Liel: [00:43:14] All right. Take care.

Liel: [00:43:19] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers, leave us a review, and send us your questions to ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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