You are already listening to podcasts; that is why you are here reading this. But have you ever considered hosting your own? Creating your own podcast can be a terrific strategy to reach your next clients.

In this week’s conversation, we discuss how hosting your own podcast could be the one strategy that can help you bust your entire digital strategy while actively helping you to build more authority, expand your networks and generate new clients along the way.

There are multiple ways you can leverage the power of podcasts to grow your law firm; whether you want to host your own show or be a guest at some of the podcasts you listen to (wink wink), this episode will hand you in 30 minutes everything you need to know to launch your podcast strategy.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] Forty percent of listeners find new podcasts through the search function, their favorite podcast directory, than through any other channel, including Google. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And this is In Camera podcast where we never skip on publishing a podcast episode, even when our recording equipment lets us down and our audio quality isn’t the best. Welcome to In Camera podcast, private legal work and conversations, Grace. Welcome back. How are you today?

Grace: [00:00:59] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:01] Great Grace. I’m doing very well. Thank you very much. And Grace, I’m super excited to start today with this conversation because it’s one that I’ve had in the back burner as an idea for us to come and talk about. And it’s great to finally have this opportunity to bring it up and talk about it. Great, because it’s something that you and I do every single week. And it actually has worked very well for us. And chances are that it can also work very well for other law firms or marketing agencies that are listening to this podcast and can leverage the power of podcasts. Grace. That’s right. Podcast as a business marketing strategy. What do you think?

Grace: [00:01:42] I think it is a phenomenal marketing strategy. That’s why we like you said, we did it too, so that it’s something that other people can benefit from. And that’s what we’re going to talk about.

Liel: [00:01:52] Yeah. One hundred percent, Grace. And so, first of all, Grace, the one thing I think it’s very important to establish here is like why and when you should start a podcast and these two elements will be relevant if the path that you decide to take is creating your own podcast. Because we will also talk about another strategy where you don’t necessarily have to create your own podcast or you can market yourself to get invited to be guest at other podcasts. And from that you can also get tremendous exposure. So I think both can be very viable strategies really for anyone right nowadays, really, anyone can have a podcast and can get invited to a podcast, but it’s all about really figuring out which type of podcast or what type of content you want to discuss in your podcast that’s going to really make the difference, Grace. So let me start by saying what I think and I’m really interested here hearing is what are your thoughts on these? Are the fundamentals like the basics that you need to be able to answer for yourself before you start our podcast? Right. So a number one, can you think about a topic that you’re really, really passionate about? And I think that’s going to be important because even if you’re just setting yourself to record a podcast, even if it’s on a frequency of once a month, well, you’re still going to need to have to get in front of a microphone and recording by yourself or with somebody else for a period of between 30 to 40 minutes or maybe even an hour on a topic that you need to sound confident, interested and be knowledgeable about to really be able to capture an audience. Right. So what do you think? What are your first thoughts on this format?

Grace: [00:03:48] So, you know, like you said, there’s different ways to go about it. And so I think you’re right in this in the sense that if you have something you’re passionate about, you have a niche. Right? I mean, that’s kind of we’ve talked about niche marketing and that kind of thing. So I think this is a good time to bring that up. I think people who are passionate about something, whether they want to create their own podcast or get invited to a podcast or however they want to do that part of it, it’s content creation and it’s something that is important to them. So it’s going to come across that way to the listeners.

Liel: [00:04:20] One hundred percent, Grace, I totally agree with you there. And the other part, which is extremely important. It’s very, very important is that for most of people, really, for most of people, the creative process of putting a podcast is like, I will talk about what I like and about what I think is good and then let the content find its audience. And while that sounds lovely and it would be wonderful if everything in content marketing work so easily and seamlessly, but the reality is that you first need to identify your audience. Who do you want your report to be relevant to and understand very well what are there currently listening to? What do they like, what’s successful? And then create a podcast that can compete with that. Identify your audience and craft the podcast that they’ll want to hear.

Grace: [00:05:16] Well, yeah. I mean, there are podcasts, or the idea of a podcast is to be personal and humanizing. Right. You want them to understand that you are a thought leader in this space and it’s because you care about what you’re talking about. But you’re also basically an expert. Right. And or if you’re not an expert that you know so much about this because it’s something that has become important to you and that you’ve become a personal expert. Right. So I agree with your assessment. I mean, those are just one of those things that people need to provide this thought leadership and it will help them and help the user. Right. Whoever is listening to them, it should help them as well.

Liel: [00:05:55] Yeah. Like everything in marketing, you can spend months and years overthinking things or you can just go ahead and do them. I think, you know if we’d have to choose one or the other. OK, go ahead and do them. But I still think it’s important to put yourself out there first and understand what’s already available, what is actually having good traction with your potential audience, and then take it from there. And so there are so many ways that you can find out what are already taking traction, what’s actually getting some momentum. Right. And so one of the easiest and most simple ways is just go to your preferred podcast provider, service provider, whether that’s Spotify, whether that’s Apple podcast and check what’s on the top list, what’s ranking top when you’re actually searching the type of topics that you would like to hear or listen or you want your podcast to be about and see what’s already ranking, what’s coming up and listen to some of those episodes. Pay attention as to how they start, how they end, how they’re structuring your conversations. So there is a lot of easy, really, really easy ways that you can find out what would be the right formula for your podcast to stand a chance with your audience. So that’s one thing here to keep in mind now, Grace, one that’s once that’s been defined now comes to, well, how do I do it? Right. I mean, creating a podcast is technical. You need to record yourself. You need to then edit. You need to publish. You know, you need to promote.

Liel: [00:07:28] So let’s try to break it down, because first of all, let’s start by acknowledging. Yes, it’s work, right. It’s not automatic. It’s not easy to do this, but it’s also not so hard. And so let’s first try to take care of those technical elements so hopefully, we can tackle those and then just focus on the content part of it. So the technical part of things, I know that there’s a lot of podcast hosts that have amazing setups in soundproof rooms using the latest and the greatest in microphone technology and really impressive studios to record their shows. But you don’t really need all that. You can very well buy on Amazon a good quality USB microphone, pay a monthly membership to platforms like Zentaks cost or Swatcast cost to record your content there in great audio quality and be able to have a co-host or guests join you remotely and be able then to export audio files that are really, really high quality and locally recorded and not to get here too technical about it. But there is a difference. I don’t want to. And that’s my personal opinion here, because there is a lot of people that record broadcasts here and record them over zoom and then use their Zoom audio or Zoom video to basically publish them as their podcast. And I might advocate of not doing that because you still want your users to have a good experience and a good quality and for a good experience and good quality audio. So I think this is the best way of going about it.

Liel: [00:09:18] But it’s super, super easy, right? If you know how to use Zoom, you’re not going to have any issues using a platform. And you’re going to be able to then at the end of it have either a consolidated audio file in great quality, so you can publish it on your podcast, maybe by outing and intro or an outro or you can then subtract individual tracks and do a more complex editing process. So with that, we’ve just taken care of, I think most likely what’s going to be like the recording part to getting that content. OK, now let’s talk a little bit about hosting your podcast and distribution and such. And there is a lot of solutions out there, some that are more professional and are a little bit more technical, and require a little bit more knowledge to configure. There is quite a few that are super, super easy. And so for these Grace, I think we’ll just going to link on our episode notes list of potential podcast hosts where you can then just set up an account and literally, you upload your audio files, a description for each one of your episodes, put up the name of your podcast, add up on visual graphic, what’s going to be your cover for your podcast? And then that will give you RSS feed that will then allow you to upload your podcast to all of the other networks that are of interest to you, like Apple podcast. And many of these servers actually are able to publish the podcast on some platforms automatically natively from the platform itself.

Liel: [00:10:52] So Grace. Let’s now acknowledge another route that you can take and just kind of like poke about the do-it-yourself sort of version of it. You can also hire if you have the budget, you can set aside some money and have all of these done for you by someone that actually is a full-time podcast producer. And it doesn’t have to be very expensive. I really don’t know what is the price range, your price, because we produce our podcast in-house. However, there could very well be a solution out there that can take care of the production of your partners at a very competitive price and basically give you hassle free solution so you don’t have to deal with any of these things, but know that you can also do it in a house without necessarily having to outsource. So you have different routes. OK, so we’ve already talked about how do you record your podcast, how you can distribute it right? Let’s talk about the content, because that’s another thing, right? How can you come up with content every single week or every month so you can have something to talk about in your podcast and then publish it, Grace, and how you’re going to talk and bring up a concept that we use a lot for when we talk about content creation, whether it’s for website or social media, it’s repurposing, you can actually use content that you’ve already created for other channels and use them for your podcast. Right. An example can be a blog post. Gracec can you think of other examples?

Grace: [00:12:20] Definitely. Articles, videos, literally. Anything you have already out there in terms of content can be repurposed.

Liel: [00:12:27] I mean, Grace, one thing that you’ve done a lot here in this podcast is repurposing presentations that you’ve done for particular webinars. Right. Or for guest-speaking spots that you’ve had of conferences. And then we take that same presentation and we bring it here to the studio and then we record the podcast on that topic. Right. And so there is a lot of ways that you can actually find the content that you’re going to be using for your podcast. Right. So whether you’ve been guest blogging, whether you are publishing articles on your website, whether you’ve created videos. Right. And you can use some of the scripts that you’ve used there for your podcasts. There is a lot of things that you can do so you don’t have to start from scratch and you can actually build your calendar using already content that you’ve used. And yes, maybe you’ll have to tweak it. Maybe you will have to make some additional research. Maybe you need to update it so that it’s relevant at the time that you’re going to be recording. But it’s going to give you already kind of like a foundation that is going to help you not having to rethink the entire creative process. You’re going to be able to adopt some of your existing assets.

Grace: [00:13:40] Is anything that you can not have to reinvent. The wheel definitely makes it easier on the new one. And whoever is doing it, I mean, you need a strategy, right? You can’t just set it, forget it or put stuff out there and hope it sticks. We’ve always said that there’s always needs to be a strategy, content strategy, and this is the best strategy to use. What do you already have that you can reuse?

Liel: [00:14:03] Yeah, and again, another venue here that it’s very, very popular and works very well is deciding that all of your podcasts are strictly going to be with a guest. You’re only going to be doing guest interviews. And so that’s great. That’s that’s that’s brilliant. That’s a formula that works very well. If you’re at our because we have a belend, we sometimes invite guests, sometimes we do our own content. And that’s what works for us. But there are. A lot of that is strictly on the interview guests and there are other podcasts that strictly only have their own content. And so you can then figure out which one is the best mix that’s going to work for you. It’s one or the other or a mixture of both of them. And Grace, the thing here is that if you’re going to go the guest route, that’s also a great opportunity to decide also that your podcast may not necessarily be only a legal podcast. You can make it more a community-oriented podcast, that it’s more aimed more generally to topics of interest to your community. Right. Whomever you decide your community is, of course. Right. That’s going back to the first part that you’ve mentioned, which is understanding who your audience is. And then you can really also present yourself, not necessarily as a successful lawyer or a thought leader in the legal industry, but you can also open up room for you to have conversations about all other important events or things that you care about.

Liel: [00:15:33] And those can be anything. Those can be activism. That can be economics, that can be business growth. That can be sports. Right. I mean, it can really be anything that you’re passionate about and that you would want to include in your podcasts that you feel it’s going to be relevant and interesting to your audience. So that’s something great as well. And when we’re going to talk a little bit about how do you get invited to podcasts, we can talk a little bit about how you then also invite people to come and join you on your podcast. But before we move to that Grace, I do want to acknowledge one of the main benefits of having the podcast. So having the podcasts, yeah, that sounds great, right? It just gives you another channel where you can distribute your knowledge or information and you can also build your brand through that. And the other great benefit that it has is that it actually complements very nicely your other marketing strategies because just sort of you already have a website and you have social media. And so guess what, when your podcast, now you’re generating an opportunity to create more content for those two platforms, for your website and for your social media. So for your website, it could be by actually having a link to your actual podcasts there. You can actually have your podcast website inside your website. It doesn’t have to be a separate one.

Liel: [00:16:57] You can actually have a separate website for your podcast if you decide that’s the right strategy for you, which in many cases it can actually be a great move. In some cases it can just be hosted inside your own website. And so with that, you can then take the approach of transcribing your podcast episode and use that transcript as a blog post. Right. Depending on how long your episodes are, you can decide to break down your transcripts into two or three or even four smaller articles and then publish them separately or repurpose them by publishing them separately, doing some tidying up, arranging them a little bit, removing some parts, adding some others, looking at the internal link structure, look at some adding some external links as well there. And these can become standalone articles. Or if you just want to keep the transcript of your episodes under the episode page, that’s another great option. Right. But it still comes towards content and it’s still getting indexed by the search engine crawlers. So this is great because it’s going to potentially help. And where and another your visibility in organic ranking, hopefully. Right. Of course, there is a strategy that goes to it. Right. It’s not just like transcribing and that’s it. But by doing that, you’re already taking a big step. Now, going through the social media part of it, Grace, you know, just like we’re going right, you take a little excerpt from the episode and you create an audiogram and then you can share that on social media.

Liel: [00:18:38] And so you can do several of those for each episode if you want. You don’t just have to do one. It really depends on how much you want to get out of each one of these episodes. And the great thing is that depending on what route you were taking, sometimes if you were partnering with a third party to produce your podcast, they’re very likely also going to have the option of offering for you those creatives for the social media posts. So you can already just have those prepared for you and you just need to post or sometimes they’ll even post for you. Right, depending on what type of service you’re hiring and how much you’re paying. But know that there is a lot of tools out there that can help you create these audiograms or sound bytes in a very easy and efficient way. And so that’s one hundred percent a great way of having content to share on social media and also a great way to promote and drive traffic to your podcast. Because at the end of the day, you need to remember that creating the podcast, as many say, is not the hard part. The hard part is actually promoting and getting in front of listeners and getting them to listen to your episode. So that’s another very, very big thing to remember.

Grace: [00:19:55] And I can add a couple of things to what you said in terms of the network and all of that. So podcasting isn’t just a one-stop-shop type of thing, meaning it’s not just that you’re going to go create this podcast, post it and hope people listen. Right. It’s part of your marketing strategy. So what it’s going to do is it’s going to help expand your network in a different way. And it will also allow you to basically create and develop much more meaningful relationships because you have essentially this somebody is coming to listen to you and you and another potential person, let’s say, or they’re coming to listen to you because you’re on someone else’s podcast. So this is creating a relationship between you and the listener without having to do anything necessarily because they came to listen to you. So I think people misunderstand how valuable podcasting can be. And I think that people may feel like it’s very difficult. But hopefully, after what you have mentioned, Liel, and all the different things, the technical tools that are not so technical that people can do and use or have someone do for them, hopefully, people will take that away from this call and listening to us because, I mean, just look at your setup and myself. I have a USB mic. That’s it. It’s not really it’s just a standard microphone from Audio Technica, your setup looks awesome. You’ve got this boom mic and these big headphones and things like that that you’ve got a great podcast setup, but it works for both of us.

Liel: [00:21:34] Exactly. It’s not really it’s you can go different routes here, right? When we’ve recorded remotely. Right. When we’ve been at conferences and such, recording podcasts remotely. Right. We’ve figured out a way to do it as well. And so there is a lot of different things that you can do here. You just need to decide a little bit what type of show do you want and then research a little bit on what is the best setup that you can use for that. But at the same time, don’t get too hooked in trying to get it extremely professional and extremely right. It needs to be a good balance. Right. You want to make sure that you’re not using your laptop microphone to record your audio, but you also don’t need to go and soundproof a room, your office or your house, or somewhere to actually get good quality audio. So, Grace, I now want us to move and talk a little bit about, OK, you know, find this podcasting knowledge is great, but I don’t want to have my own podcast, but I do want to get featured on some podcasts. So Grace, here’s the thing. It’s 100 percent possible and it’s not that hard, right? It’s really not that hard. You need to first understand how are you going to hire someone kind of like a podcast PR agency to help you with it or you’re going to do it by yourself.

Liel: [00:22:58] And if you’re hiring a forecast PR agency, then that’s great. I’ll take care of everything for you. Right. And there is a lot of services that actually specifically work by helping you getting on podcasts, that’s the only thing that they do, that the only word that they’ll do for you is that. And the price range will vary, some of them, are going to be very affordable. Some of them may be very expensive. Right. So research then, find one that you’re comfortable with, see their track record, see who they work with, see what type of products they have access to pitching you on, and take it from there. Now. You can also do it in-house, right? You can also work with someone within your team to do the pitching on your behalf. And so Grace, we get these e-mails every single week on our podcast and we go through them and then we decide who we think it’s going to be a good fit for our show and we invite them. Right. And basically what you create is a little media pack that you send out to the podcast where you’d like to get featured. So let me backtrack a little bit, decide which podcast you would want to show up to. Right. And all of these folks that you’d like to show up in are going to have an email associated with them at least.

Liel: [00:24:22] Right. And if not an email, they’re probably going to have a social media hangover, whether it’s LinkedIn or Twitter or Facebook, where you may be able to contact them. And so basically somebody reaches out and says, hey, I think I have someone who could be a great guest at your show because of this that is that. Here is a media pack on them so you can review. Right. And so let’s first talk about the selecting, the focus that you think that you’re going to be a good fit for. These are always going to be podcasts that you’re going to identify a suitable because you’ve done the same exercise of identifying where your target audience is. So you want to try to get on a podcast where your target audience are going to be listening? Right. And these target audiences sometimes are consumers, sometimes are other businesses that you want to be able to have access to by positioning yourself as a leader and therefore being able to expand your network and create a referral network, whatever it is right. Now, when you’re actually pitching out, whether it’s that you’re doing it yourself. I think it would be great if somebody else on your team can send these emails. Right. And they’re not coming directly from you. But, hey, no shame in doing that.

Liel: [00:25:36] That can also work if you have the right tone and you’re right the right voice and you’re actually framing it as I’m reaching out personally because that’s how interested I am in being in your show, it can actually speak to your advantage. So just know how to play around with that to make it work and work to your advantage. So brace make sure that the pitch is very personal. Just don’t use the same pitch for every single show, know the show, know the audience and make your case based on that. Right. Why would it particularly be beneficial for them to have you in that particular show and how it can help their audience? Right. That’s super, super, super important. I can tell you, Grace, when we go through these emails, we pay a lot of attention to that. I really, really make sure that these people who are reaching out to us did not reach out to us because they scrape a list of a thousand podcasts and they did an outreach campaign to all of them with the exact same message. I don’t care about that. But when I hear or see or read an email from someone who was actually listening for episodes who have actually been following the show and they’re aware of what are the different topics and the dynamics of the show, then it caught my attention.

Liel: [00:26:54] Right, because now I say, well, you know, they’ve put some thought into it. And so they may have a good point here. And then suggest a topic, right. The topic is super important, like what’s the conversation going to be about? So the podcast can then decide, like, this is a great future or not. Now, this is another one super important. Let’s talk about the media that you’re sending out here. As we’ve already discussed over the past 20 minutes, creating a podcast takes time, it’s work. So if you’re pitching yourself to be a guest in somebody else’s podcast, my recommendation is to make it easy for them to have you as a guest. Right. And you do that by actually facilitating the actual podcast through your media kit, not just the suggestion of the topic that the conversation can be about, but also your bio, which most likely is going to be used to the interest of the podcast, where at some point you want to facilitate some questions that you think are going to be a great fit and are going to help guide the conversation into topics that you’re suggesting. And you also want to provide up front your social media handles, your website, some of the things that are going to be of value to get added on the episode notes. And so by doing these proactively and getting this information out there, you’re also making it much easier for the podcast to be able to schedule you and build and program the conversation or the episode with you as a guest and therefore increase your chances of getting on the show.

Liel: [00:28:34] Right. So. How do you create one of these media kits? Easy. You’re going to Google documents, right, and you put on the title with your name and then you put out a brief description of your bio and then you put up some more information about your legal trajectory or if you have a book or if you’ve done anything else that it’s being mentioned, the awards, the accolades, the network, you know, things that are important, that are making you stand out from the rest. And then you can include the questions and then you can include, as I’ve mentioned, on all the links and social media handles and all of these other things. And you create a PDF out of it and you attach it on an email that you sent out. And it’s as simple as that. As simple as that. So, Grace, I think here we have gone through some very good parts that can be taken to get marketing done for podcasts. Whether you’re going to host your own podcast or whether you’re going to be a guest on other people’s podcasts. What can be our takeaways, Grace, for this episode?

Grace: [00:29:48] So to me, the first takeaway is decide what you want to do. Right. And we always say that it’s meaning what strategy do you want to take? Are you going to do the podcast yourself? Do you want to be on other people’s podcasts? And what is that going to look like in terms of frequency? Right. So that’s the first and foremost. I think that’s the first takeaway is think about how you want to structure the podcast and how involved you want to be on the actual creation of the podcast itself, like the technical aspects and the strategy and where you’re going to fit into that whole thing. Are you going to sub it out to someone? Are you going to do it yourself? Are you going to put these things up on your own website? Are you going to use a system figure all that out? There are lots of resources out there. You can also link to our podcasts. Take a look at our podcast. Listen in on it. We have plenty of resources that we can provide to you as well. As we mentioned, Swad cast in a couple of other systems out there that can do some of the stuff for you. So to me, that’s first takeaway. Strategize, figure out how you want to deal with this and then put it into practice.

Liel: [00:30:56] Grace, another thing here. Let’s talk a little bit about on our second takeaway. Why is a podcast good as a marketing strategy? What are things that people can do with podcasts that I’ve already been guess on or they are currently producing to leverage them as assets for their marketing strategy?

Grace: [00:31:18] Use current content, right. Isn’t that what we kind of.

Liel: [00:31:21] Yeah. So if you’re creating podcasts. Right. And you need to choose topics, use your existing content to choose the topics, but once the focus is created, Grace, I think really good ways of leveraging those assets for benefiting your marketing strategy is well, one, as we said, repurpose it for social media content, repurpose it potentially for creating with the transcripts of those podcasts, blog posts and Grace, one thing here that is super, super important and very valuable for SEO, particularly if you’re actually being guests on other podcasts, is actually the links that you’re going to get out of those podcasts by linking to your website, by linking through a LinkedIn profile, by linking to other things that you willing to promote or that you’re interested in promoting because this is basically going to support you with your strategy, your onsite SEO strategy. And it’s super important, right? I mean, now, rather than just doing outreach to get links, you can do outreach to get on podcasts and with a podcast, you’re also going to get a link. So that’s another very strategic way to look at getting invited into podcasts. And that’s another thing Grace. Even if you have your own podcast, you still want to get invited to other podcasts, right? I think that should definitely be in your list of ways to diversify and to increase your presence through digital platforms is by wanting and aiming to get invited to a podcast. We have one last takeaway. What’s it going to be?

Grace: [00:33:07] I think that don’t be afraid to start something. Don’t be afraid to do something different. If it’s not something that you’ve thought about before, think about it now, because it is a great resource for the people on the other side. And it’s not that hard in the sense that it really isn’t difficult to get onto a podcast of your choosing if you do it the right way. If you just follow the instructions, as you said, you make it personal when you’re reaching out. If that’s the strategy that you’re choosing, just get it started. Start doing something like that at the very least, so that you can at least get familiar with how a podcast is done. And even if you’re just a guest on one.

Liel: [00:33:51] I think one hundred percent, Grace, and I appreciate you bringing that up, because here’s the thing right. Be realistic as well as to which podcast are you reaching out to, right. The fact that you can they have an email address that you can reach out and send your your your pitch doesn’t necessarily mean that it will pick up on you because they’re bringing people with certain brand recognition into your pockets. Right. If you’re trying to pitch yourself to go to the Joe Rogan podcast, you’re probably not going to pick up on you. Right, because they’re bringing you a mosque to be a guest at that podcast. So that’s another thing that is great about podcasts, is that there is all different. So forecasts for all the categories that you may can even think of, and there’s going to be those that will have you as a guest and there will be those that don’t. And so don’t get discouraged if there is a podcast that did not respond or not did not see you as a good fit for their show, move on to other ones. Right. Because chances are that you will find podcasts that are still relevant to you and to your audience that you will be a good fit for. So, yes, it’s great and fine, but don’t get discouraged for when those really top chart podcasts are not necessarily getting back to you. I think this has been a great conversation, very extensive, very complex. Of course, we could have definitely gone on here for a few more hours talking about each of the different types of approaches that you can take in order to launch a podcast strategy. But I think this is a good starting point. And we most definitely at one point are going to come back and talk about this again.

Grace: [00:35:39] That’s right. Because podcasts are valuable and especially when everybody going remote. It’s one of those things that you should definitely start taking a look at if you haven’t already and take our takeaways and take them to heart.

Liel: [00:35:50] Yeah, totally, totally, Grace. All right. So, Grace, thank you so much. And we’ll be back next week with another episode.

Grace: [00:35:57] Thank you. Take care. Bye bye.

Liel: [00:35:58] Bye bye.

Liel: [00:36:02] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers, leave us a review, and send us your questions to ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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