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S3 E10: LegalBots


ICP Logo

S3 E10: LegalBots





A law firm website with live chat is as common as a website that offers form submissions as a preferred conversion method. And while this has met users’ needs for some time now, it could soon enough not meet your website visitors’ expectations.

Joe Ruotolo joins this week’s conversation on why bots designed and programmed for law firms can increase productivity, save costs, and, most importantly, get your potential clients on a path to conversion fast.

If you are frustrated with the limitations that live chat has and have been looking for an enhanced chat experience on your website, this conversation is for you.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] If your reaction to the idea of adding a bot to your website is what is wrong with live chat, then you probably haven’t experienced the full potential of an AI bot. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media, and this is In Camera podcast where we like bots with empathy and personality.

Liel: [00:00:47] Welcome to In Camera podcast, private label marketing conversations, Grace. Welcome back. How are you today? mid-March. How does that feel?

Grace: [00:00:54] Good, good. It feels like it’s just going by super fast right now. How does it feel for you?

Liel: [00:00:59] I’m excited, Grace. It’s getting very warm here in Texas and I’m really looking forward to the spring. I think I’ve been saying it quite a few times over the past few episodes. I don’t know. It’s probably because we have sort of like a miserable last month here in Texas, you know, with all of this power outage and stuff, it really kind of left a mark. And so I’m kind of looking forward to seeing all of those beautiful trees full of green leaves and kind of getting the scenery that we’re used to. And let’s talk about some more interesting things, Grace, here. Right, because we have a great conversation lined up here. But before we jump to that, can you tell me a little bit about how your multiple projects are coming along? Is there anything that you can share with us? Any updates, any news on anything?

Grace: [00:01:44] Well, I guess I could give you some information as to the the Texas power outage campaign stuff that’s going on right now. You know, we’re kind of well into that whole thing. Call from the last podcast. When we were talking about it, it was regarding everything that happened in Texas, right when the power went out and the freeze and the business income loss and everything. So, yeah, that’s kind of what we’ve been dealing with. We’re well into it now. You know, it’s an interesting area.

Liel: [00:02:13] Right. Sorry to interrupt your webinar yesterday. Right? I think it was from MTMP. Was it?

Grace: [00:02:17] Yes, it was. It was. There was one yesterday. That’s correct.

Liel: [00:02:21] Probably partnership.

Grace: [00:02:24] Probably in partnership. I think it was MPTMP with sponsorship by X social if I’m not mistaken. That’s usually how they kind of set it up. I think I didn’t look at the exact firms that were on it, but the ones that we’re dealing with are basically what’s Garra fares in the Swathi and Parker Waksman. A couple of those guys are the ones that we’re dealing with in terms of the Texas power outage campaign. So I can share that a little bit with you. And that’s an interesting campaign because it’s different, right? It has to do with power outage. If it’s commercial property has to do with the things that have been business income loss or property damage. And then if it’s residential, it’s personal injury or property damage, you know, so it’s an interesting campaign. It’s definitely different. And I’m just interested to see kind of how the numbers shake out.

Liel: [00:03:14] You know, we should definitely bring some attorneys here to talk a little bit about what’s happening there. I think, as you’ve said, it’s unique in its own way, but it’s certainly still gathering a lot of momentum, at least, Grace. You know, the phones don’t stop ringing. And, you know, there is some just frustration for people trying to find help for things that really law firms cannot do anything for. But then there are so many devastating cases that are also coming in light of these. And it’s really, really sad. But, Grace, thanks for that update. And yes, there’s a lot to look forward to learning and hear about how that develops. Let’s focus on this week’s conversation because we have a special guest who’s going to come to talk about intake and how AI can make it faster, better, more efficient. So why don’t you do the honors, as always, and introduce him in this case to our audience, and then we just get started.

Grace: [00:04:10] All right. So, all right, guys, we got a pretty special treat for you. I’ve met him probably a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month now, and we just kind of hit it off immediately. So I’m pleased to welcome Joe Ruotolo, I would say Ruotolo from Intaker for a conversation on artificial intelligence A.I., on the intake process for law firms. He works with Intaker. Intaker brings artificial intelligence to your law firm, increases your advertising return on investment while saving money and time. If you want to learn more about Intaker, please visit Intaker.co. Joe, welcome.

Joe: [00:04:50] Grace, thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here. It’s really amazing. Thank you both.

Liel: [00:04:56] Thank you for being here. We appreciate your energy. Our listeners cannot see. But you’re raising your hands. You’re happy, you’re smiling. And I’m sure that’s coming across to your voice as well. So, Joe, thank you so much for making yourself available for a conversation that we, here in this podcast, love having.

Grace: [00:05:13] We’re always trying to kind of like push the boundaries between how can we deliver excellent client experience, but at the same time being efficient and still keeping things personal and in line with the law firm goals. So there is a lot to talk here about. But first, where is this podcast finding you today?

Joe: [00:05:34] You catch me in Los Angeles, which is also where the home of Intaker is right here in L.A. and not too far away from the water. And it’s an amazing, beautiful day. It rained the other day. And so the air is crystal clear and life is good. Yes. 

Liel: [00:05:51] That’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. So, Joe, let’s talk about AI intake, right. Because it can be a little bit confusing, I think maybe a way that we’ve come to learn one of the preferred methods of conversions, or potentially one that has grown in demand and use over the past few years has been live chat, right. And so live chats tend to be those little widgets on the corners of the page that are inviting the user to potentially rather than just continue their exploration of a site to initiate a conversation traditionally with a live agent who then potentially either does some sort of prequalification or tries to move the visitor to potential consultation. Right. That’s usually how it works.

Joe: [00:06:40] That’s right.

Liel: [00:06:41] Now, when we talk about AI intake, what defers, what’s different between that concept of live chat that we know between a AI-Powered intake?

Joe: [00:06:52] Ok, so we’ve thought a lot about this. How are they different and what makes bots unique today? Right. 

Liel: [00:07:00] That’s the main differentiator to start off. One in an actual live agent. The other one is a bot. 

Joe: [00:07:09] Exactly. When we say a bot, you know, it’s an automated chat. Not everyone prefers to use the term bot because well, I think there’s a little bit of stigma around it because of so many bad experiences that we’ve all had at some point or another using a chatbot that was poorly designed and that left us frustrated. And so off the bat, I think there is some hesitation in especially in the legal community about adopting this A.I.-driven intake. But I would also separate that the traditional chatbot is different than something that is more of a smart automated system to capture those leads, qualify them and the rest.

Liel: [00:07:51] So tell us a little bit about how a bot works. Right. So from the user experience standpoint, when you have the live chat, you have, again, as I’ve said, a little widget on the corner, it’s prompting you if you need any help or assistance. What would you say are the main differences between the experience that a user gets through the live chat?

Liel: [00:08:10] You look at a parallel how would it look like with a bot and of course, what are the benefits, do you think, of doing a bot.

Joe: [00:08:19] Yes. Yeah. So what people are most familiar with when we think of a live chat is a little picture in the corner, usually a friendly person saying, hi, how can I help you? Is there anything I can help you with? Click to start a chat and from there the user, the visitor would type a little bit. Right, maybe say hello, I’m looking for help or I’d like to speak to an attorney, whatever it is. And then there’s going to be a back and forth. It’s going to be mostly text-based, mostly typing, and that there can be a live person who could kind of take over. It can start with like an automated back and forth and then, OK, hold on while I connect you to an agent. And then from there, you know, the person may be able to speak to someone in like a chat back and forth with the live agent. And from there, maybe they’ll get connected on the phone call, whatever the process is. With a botut it’s a little bit different.

Joe: [00:09:14] And there are a few key points that can make it potentially easier and faster for a firm to get to help those people. Now, one way that we do it at Intaker is by having options for what they need help with. So let’s say that you are a family law practice, right?

Joe: [00:09:35] Then you might have some choice for divorce, another one for something like child custody. And what this does two things. Number one, it helps educate the visitor about what you do. Sometimes they might come, they might be looking for a personal injury. A lot of the time, if it’s not a sophisticated user, they could think that all lawyers are the same and that they could help them. And so this is a chance and the very beginning to tell them what they do right.

Joe: [00:10:03] From there, it could be creating a conversation that’s going to move much faster to get someone to the finish line, to get them connected to a real person that can help. And in that way, we want to help qualify these leaves a little bit, ask them a few questions that we could talk about that as well, how we’re using the A.I. to qualify some of these potential clients before they get connected to a firm.

Grace: [00:10:29]  That actually kind of perfectly ties into my next question would be. How do these bots with A.I. components to them, how do they kind of compare to other conversion methods or other methods of communication, you know, like forms, phone calls, things like that? Like how does this kind of change the landscape?

Joe: [00:10:51] Yes, yes. This is a great question. And the boring answer is that it depends. And I say that because every firm I’ve noticed, because I’ve worked with hundreds of firms can have a different starting point when they come in to maybe they’re using the live chat already. Right. And then they’re interested in seeing what an automated or A.I.-driven chat is like. But depending on how maybe their website is set up if it’s optimized for loading speed and other factors, that can really affect the user experience, that could really determine how much volume they get or how effective the chat is going to be to convert visitors. And so I’ll tell you what I’ve seen kind of on average and then what the sterling examples are like for some clients who have really taken this to heart, making that experience streamline and optimize when people visit their website. So in general, we have seen most firms are typically using like. Maybe 70 percent phone calls and maybe 20, maybe 30 percent chats and really small amount of something like a contact form. Now, the contact form, when maybe someone clicks on a contact us page and then it’s OK, what’s your name? What’s your email? And you fill out the fields. And this used to be good at conversion, but I think people are more blind to them now just because they’ve become so ubiquitous that people just ignore them. So forms, unfortunately, are being replaced by chat. I think that’s actually a good thing. So it’s not unfortunate, but that’s kind of typical, like a 70/30, 80/20 split between phone calls and chat. But for firms that take the extra step are really making sure that their websites are optimized for a good user experience. The numbers are very different. And I’ve actually talked to some veterans in the legal marketing world who’ve thought a lot about this, looked at a lot of data. And what I’ve learned from those people is a high functioning chat, high performing chat is going to be closer to 40 in some cases, approaching 50 percent of the leads that come through, chat with the rest coming through phone calls and again, maybe five percent coming through forms on average. Now, when it comes to something like an automated system, how can that push the boundary even further? That’s something that we’ve been measuring and keep trying to test ourselves with our customers. I don’t have good data industry-wide for it, but if you compare, let’s say, an average live chat. Where someone could have a little bit of response time, maybe 20 seconds to get connected to a live person, make 30 seconds depending on the case. That’s the really tricky part of using a live chat where that is valuable time that someone leaves before you capture their info. You won’t even know they are there. And actually, I think this is the number one driver of what makes an automated system a better conversion tool. It’s going to be faster. It’s going to be consistent. And you can really focus on capturing that critical information first with automation. And so I can just tell you really quickly what we’ve seen, which is anywhere from like a 20 to a 40 or maybe 50 percent increase of conversion lift when they switch from like a traditional jet to an automated system like ours.

Grace: [00:14:29] That’s hefty numbers.

Liel: [00:14:30] Yeah, sorry, Grace. No, I think we both wanted to jump into noticing how remarkable it is, which is really quite great. And I’d like to follow up right here, because, of course, I’ve heard a lot of things that were familiar and resonate much to the experience that we’ve had. Right. Seeing how law firms integrate either bots or live chats to their websites. And I think one thing we’ve all grown used to, and I think users notice as well, is that live chats, they just feel identical between one law firm and the other. If you are in the exploration of finding a law firm, you can potentially visit all of the first-page results websites and really notice that every single law firm, while they have different names, different websites, different color scheme, many times what the websites look very much the same. But also the live chat is literally identical. Like, who knows, maybe in the same picture of the same agent is there. Right. And so definitely doesn’t necessarily always puts the brand and the personality at the front of things. And my question to you is, what would be the main difference between live chat in terms as to the way that you can actually present and bring your law firm’s personality and identity in, you know, as you were saying, really guide the user through your website and through their familiarisation process between your Law Firm and them how it differentiates from the way that live chat does it. Right. And we know that there are some law firms. Right. We don’t want to generalize here. There are some law firms that actually have their own in-house teams sitting in front of their live chat applications and actually taking care of it themselves.

Liel: [00:16:20] But we also know that there is maybe two or three big providers out there that basically deal with 90 percent of the live chat traffic for all law firms across the nation. So thinking more about the experience of outsourced live chat service to the way that you can actually use your software, your platform to do your own, AI-powered familiarisation slash intake process.

Joe: [00:16:48] Yes. OK, great question. And you bring up a good point that you mentioned a moment ago about something like bringing the brand into that experience for the user. And this is another thing that we have, especially post covid. It’s important to have a way to connect with people. On that first experience, because less of them are coming to the office, but we want to give them a feeling that is still personal, that has a sense of warmth to it. And one of the ways that we’ve been able to do that is by using more than just a text-based chat, or live chats that are text-based, using this combination of things like voice and video through that process. And the easiest example is when they come to your website before they even start the chat, having a short message, it could be 10 seconds. It could be from the managing partner personally welcoming every person who comes to the website, letting them know how the firm can help and that what they need to do to get started. And this has been a really big feature that both clients and both firms and their clients have found valuable to create that rapport, that connection, before they even start a chat. And so using this multisensory experience. Now voice is another thing that is pretty new to the market. But allows us to actually have, like an A.I. voice, talk to the person, to greet them, to thank them for coming, and walk them through the questions step by step. And this combination of voice and video has been big drivers of this conversion lift as well, getting more people not just to offer their contact information when they’re looking for help, but to get all the way to that finish line of answering whatever, whether it’s two, three or four qualifying questions that you want to ask them to see if you can help.

Liel: [00:18:55] Tell us a little bit about voice. How does it work on your chats? So you land on the page. There is a widget somewhere on the screen. You click on it and then somebody speaks out to you and say, hey, welcome to John Smith, law firm. What can I do for you today? Is that about it?

Joe: [00:19:15] There’s one step before that and that’s…

Liel: [00:19:18]  OK.

Joe: [00:19:18] We need them to opt-in. We need to ask. Hi, I’m an automated assistant and I can actually speak to you today to see exactly how we can help. Would you like to hear?

Liel: [00:19:27] Yeah, that’s great. That’s exactly kind of like what I’m getting to because going back to the live chat experience that we all know and honestly, like, I think that has been great and it has been a great step forward that has moved law firms to as a whole, to a new method of communicating with clients. And I think that has actually served its purpose very well. But as we are looking at. OK, so how we evolve into the next thing I think that’s where we’re with you guys are doing comes to play. Right. Because, I mean, it’s dreadful when you’re just lending to a website and then all of a sudden you have like this chime coming in from the page, like announcing the live chat that is just like freaking you out. You want to get out of there right away, right? Like, where is that noise coming from? Right.

Joe: [00:20:12] Yes.

Liel: [00:20:13] And it’s really bad user experience. So I really like the way that you bring it up and you give the option because it’s all about that. It’s about giving options, anticipating what could be the potential needs of the user and just letting them know that there are multiple channels for them to get what they want. And I think just kind of like connecting into another thing. Right, and Grace, you and I, were having a conversation last week about clubhouse and how just boys write like short clips of audio can be a new way for people to want to communicate. Right. Like we’ve already done the text side of things. We’ve done the pictures and kind of like the video a little bit on and off, like video keeps coming back. But we’ve never really embraced much voice-only. And I think that’s a powerful and preferred method of just communication that people still have. So I’m excited about hearing that you are embracing and also bringing that as an option. Now, my next question to you is, OK, that all sounds great. So, of course, the greeting is the greeting everyone needs to welcome to our visitors. And there’s so much creativity that you can put behind that. But then the bottom line is that you need to create a script for your bot. Right. Like you still need to give some guidelines. You need to actually create and craft the sequence of the questions, because the difference between live bots and this, if I understood correctly, is that you, the law firm, is in control of the process. You decide what to ask and what are the options for the user to select from.

Liel: [00:21:48] So to guide them, as you very rightly said, through potentially an exploration to the law firm and then from there to a conversion, if that’s the part that they decide to take, it’s a little bit like those books when we were children. Grace, like the choose your own story, is it going to be A, B or C? And then you go and then so that leads to other questions and such. And I love it. I think it’s so fun. And as you’ve said, I’ve tried side by side using conversational pages slightly different than bots, but still very, very much the same principle. And how fast, right, is the process from where they get and how much you get done, like how much information you can take and how efficient it can be also for the user, for you to actually deliver the message like one message at a time and really get them to see what you want to tell them. So I think there is so much benefit there that I want to ask you, what are the guidelines that one needs to follow to create an excellent script for these bots to program something that’s really going to help the users?

Joe: [00:22:48] I love it. This is another question that we’ve thought a lot about. And I think before I say the main thing, there’s one important distinction. Bots, if you’re not careful, can be a little bit cold. Right. And one thing to take into consideration is adding empathy in the words that you use through that process, because often when people are coming to you for help on your site, they may be in a time of distress. And you can form a deeper connection by being smart about the language and the emotion that you want to convey through your chat. And so I would say this is something that we’ve thought a lot about, and it doesn’t have to be big. It can be these small things of after they answer your question, letting them know. Great. Thank you. I think our attorneys can help. Let’s see what else we can gather and little things like that, kind of those transition moments so that they even though this is automated, we can replicate that that feeling of connection and empathy. And in that way is another subtle. But I think it’s important way to improve that, that the conversion at the end of the day. Now, as far as the script, we can break it into two parts. The first part is what’s the most important thing for most firms? I would say capturing that contact information early on is going to be key because if they answer a few questions but you don’t know who they are, you can’t get in touch. You don’t have their phone number. It’s lost. Right. And so before we even think about what to ask, I think when to ask certain questions, it’s going to be really crucial. And so thinking about asking for contact information early on, maybe not the first thing, but if we know that you’re on there looking for help with maybe divorce like we talked about before, or even like a car accident case knowing, OK, can you explain the situation a little bit more for me, asking them to open up, share their story and get some investment from them. Because if we go straight for what’s your name, what’s your phone number? Oftentimes they may be turned off unless they feel like they’ve given something first.

Joe: [00:25:09] So I think that sequence of asking for contact information early, but not too soon, it’s important. And then for the rest of it, after we capture that, I think the next consideration is how do you want to qualify this potential client and those questions? Well, it’s going to vary a lot from practice to practice area. And it’s like a general rule of thumb. I think anywhere from two to five qualifying questions would be enough. If you have too many, then there’s going to be this drop-off. They’re not going to get to the end. But you want enough detail so you can see clearly if this person is a good fit, if you can help them and then if they’re not, you can gently decline without wasting time. And if they are a good fit, you could quickly move them to a phone call, right. Where then you could get in touch and sign them up, convert these new leads into retainers, which I want to talk in a minute about how important it is once you get a lead using a bot service or live chat service, what the most important step is after that.

Joe: [00:26:17] But that’s what will go through that in a minute. Now, it’s also worth noting that if you look at some of the more advanced tools out there and we do this as well, we have a lot of these pre-built scripts that make it much easier for the attorneys to decide what they want to offer. Right. If you’re doing mass torts, for example, and then you have one for Zantac and another one for talcum powder, a lot of the questions that firms are going to ask are pretty much the same. And so what we’ve been able to do is standardize these and create a process that works every time. And when someone wants to include one of these options on their website, they just go and click a button to add Zantac, for example. And what that does is really cuts down at the time, the energy that a firm needs to put into designing their own experience, which I think there are other firms, other companies doing this too. Creating something that’s going to be universally effective given your kind of practice area. I know, Grace, we’ve talked about some of the other tools as well. And so it’s not just us out there. But I’d recommend if you’re looking at bots, look at some of the options that have these pre-built scripts that’s going to make your life easier. But most importantly, they do a good job with the other things that we talked about. They need to capture contact information early, have empathy in that process, and then also include things that we haven’t talked about the follow ups yet. But another easy way, when you’re creating let’s think beyond just a script into a whole process, someone comes in, they have a conversation, they fill out some questions. And then what? Well, some tools. The process is there and it’s up to a human. At that point to review it and then get back to this person, but that can be a pain point because if someone isn’t available right away, this person might just leave if they don’t feel acknowledged and heard. And so what we’ve done is added these auto text, auto email, follow-ups so that after someone comes through, they can right after they add their phone number, they answer a few questions. They get a text. Hey, thanks for contacting us. Let’s continue the conversation. And you can push them to whatever that next step is, whether that’s a phone call, whether that’s booking an appointment. And I think I’m getting ahead of myself here. But there is more than just the script when you think about what a bot can offer you in terms of automation.

Liel: [00:28:47] So I just want to backtrack here a little bit, because you talk about the qualifiers and you said, you know, three to five. So you want to get some critical and very, very important information, but you don’t want to overwhelm the user with the questions. Right. And so that’s one thing that we’ve noticed, that intake over the phone does. It kind of like, so what intersection did the accident happened and were there witnesses and what are the names of the witnesses? And there is a lot of information that gets captured there, and that’s because that’s what the phone call is for. But people sometimes make the mistake of trying to do that all through chat. And so your first recommendation there is don’t just got here more critically important information and then gather the rest on your next step.

Joe: [00:29:43] Exactly. Exactly. And so we can dig into that a little bit more, because I know personal injury, live chat might be more important for PI than like a lot of other areas just because of how valuable every lead is in that field. But, for example, you know, when did the accident happen, knowing maybe just like the month and the year to make sure it’s recent enough. This isn’t from a year ago. Where did it take place in terms of is it in the state where you’re located? Are you able to help them? Can you even help them if they’re out of state? And then the third might be, were you injured? Was it someone else? And then tell us a little bit more about those injuries from there, you can kind of get a sense if this is serious, is it a serious injury or what the case may be? You can better predict how you’re able to help this person and go into that phone call knowing the most important information and guide the conversation that way.

Liel: [00:30:39] And I think one of the key elements here is that everything and or as much as possible needs to be multiple choice is not just effective for from the standpoint that you are granted to get an answer that is going to be useful to you. But from the user experience standpoint, it’s better.

Liel: [00:30:56] I think that’s one of the elements that differentiate these and makes the experience, in my opinion, better from what live chat can be. You don’t have to type anything. There are going to be certain things you’re going to have to type right, your name, your email, your telephone number, like you cannot get out of those. But questions like whether this happened, what city is this happened to, or what state you can actually your response, your options, it happened in California? It happened outside of California and then just let the user choose one or the other. Why? Because you’re guaranteed to get the answer that it’s going to be valuable for you.

Joe: [00:31:29] Exactly.

Liel: [00:31:30] Happened in the state of California move on to the next stage. Happened outside of California, then start guiding your conversation through a different channel. You’ve already got into a disqualifier that takes them out of the picture from you or doesn’t make them eligible to be a client for your law firm. So that’s actually really, really good.

Grace: [00:31:51] This is an exciting topic. You know, we all kind of geek out on this stuff. I know. I do. I know Liel does. And Joe, knowing you the short time I do, I know you do as well because it’s you know, it’s cool. I like this stuff. It’s technology. It’s making it better for the user and it’s making it better for the law firm. So everybody involved in this, it’s making it better for. So with that vein and in that kind of pathway, what would you say would be best practices for using bots in a law firm?

Joe: [00:32:20] Ok, so to be honest, I think the most important part of using the automated chat, it’s going to be the same when you’re using a live chat, and that is to contact every lead right away. I am still shocked at how many lawyers when I speak to them and they’re designing their chat like they’re ending message, they want to say, oh, we’ll call you in twenty four to forty eight hours. The leaves are gone way before that. And so there is an element of education and coaching. So when we’re on boarding new firms, we are often coaching them just to make sure that they’re getting to get the value out of their new tool. They need to be calling within the first five minutes or the first one minute when it’s possible. And this goes a long way. It goes a long way for us and for our customers.

Joe: [00:33:08] We actually use Intaker ourselves to capture leads. And we know there’s a difference when we are calling the first minute, the first five minutes or half an hour later. It’s very hard to get through when they are hot, when they engage. We need to capitalize on that. They’re already coming to you. We can’t ignore them. And so that’s number one. No matter what you’re doing, call every lead right away. Now, another thing that we can do, depending on your practice area, I know things like immigration or family law in particular have like a booking consults is really important as that next step. And what we want to do is create an easy pipeline for people to take that next action to eventually signing on as a client. And so after they answer a few questions after you have their interest, when they’re at their peak, then you can give them an option. Great. Now that we know a little bit more, let’s find a time, connect you with an attorney, give them a link where it takes two or three clicks they schedule. Maybe it’s especially if this is on the overnight or the next morning. It works incredibly well, even for other things like PI or any practice where that consultation is key. Especially on those off hours, give them that choice, they can book at time and you’re just going to get notified, there’s not going to be any chasing. And we have seen this do tremendous things for our customers. And they’re simple. It’s automation, but it’s not complicated. It’s simply using tools that you already have or that are very easy to implement. Connect them to your chat and you create this easy process. And I think that’s one of the more exciting things, is getting to help people set up these tools in a way that really simplifies their life. And just seeing that look, that feeling of excitement that they bring, it’s that that’s actually a very rewarding part of my job.

Grace: [00:35:08] I love anything that has to do with best practices. I work constantly. Liel and I are constantly telling people these are the things that you need to do and there always needs to be a call to action. And so you hit all of the points that him and I are constantly trying to tell people. These are the things that you need to include. And this is yet another reason why you need something like Intaker to be there when the client needs you to be there. Right. I mean, that’s the whole point. That’s why you became a lawyer. That’s why you’re doing what you’re doing. So if you can do that and automate it so that it’s good for you and the client, not just one side, I would think everybody’s better off.

Joe: [00:35:48] Yes. Yes. And you actually said something that it reminds me of talking to my boss, our founder, like why he started this company. And, you know, the reason why people become a lawyer is really to serve. And one of the things that, you know, he mentioned to me early on is there’s… He calls it the justice gap in this country, and that is there are many, many cases for every one case that is pursued in this country. There are two more that action is never taken. And it becomes when it is not simple for someone to connect with a firm really quickly, really easily, get help or at least be able to connect, ask a few questions and then see. Right. Do I have a case? If there’s not an easy process, then that’s going to, I think, do a disservice to them. And in the big picture, I think it suppresses the effectiveness that that attorneys and law firms can have at doing what they love, at delivering help and serving those people who need it. And so as kind of like a meta level, what are the things that we thought, like having a chat, having an option that is going to be easy to connect is the best practice in itself. And I think it will just increase the maybe decrease the justice gap and increase the ability of these firms, whether they’re big or small, to better serve their communities.

Liel: [00:37:29] Right. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s all about getting help to the people who need it. And by making it easy for them to communicate with you, with your law firm to break that ice. Right. That’s that’s hard. That’s very intimidating. We’ve talked about that right, Grace, multiple conversations. It’s not an easy step to take. And live chats have been good at that, breaking the ice, making it easy to start a conversation without necessarily having to jump all the way across and pick up the phone and calling it can be intimidating. And so I think that’s, as you said, very well, it warms up and it encourages people to at least give it a try. So I want to ask from you three takeaways that you think law firms would or should consider implementing when it comes down to improving a couple of things on their website or landing pages?

Liel: [00:38:26] And that’s user experience. That’s the type of conversions that they’re using and the way that they’re using those conversions. Right. So any takeaways that you can share with all around those items I think could be very valuable for our audience.

Joe: [00:38:41] Yes. Thank you. There are I want to start before we even get to the chat. I think it is important that firms know where they are today in terms of analytics, in terms of traffic, in terms of where people can even find them, and how they’re engaging. So there are three basic tools that I recommend every firm, if you don’t have it set up, you do it now. And that is setting up Google search console. That’s going to let you see where people are searching, what they’re searching when they find you in the mix. The other one is Google Analytics. That is going to give you when they land on your website actually give you a sense for where they engage. How long are they saying are they bouncing quickly or are they finding value and sticking around? And the third is the most exciting for me. It’s going to be Google my business. And I’ve talked to marketing firms who have told me, frankly, that they think Google is trying to replace the firm’s websites totally by having a Google my business page, where now you can call the firm directly from Google. You can find out all the basic information about this firm, including reviews which are great directly from Google. And so the websites are becoming, I would say, less relevant, unfortunately, as Google, my business has become a bigger piece of how people engage.

Liel: [00:40:05] And there is little more to talk about that which I’ll get to at the end. So the three basic tools, search console, Google Analytics, Google my business. Make sure you have the. Now, the second thing, when we want to take an action increase, what you can do to help more people is to drive traffic to your firm, both paid and organic. And so you could either learn to do it yourself the long way or you could hire someone to do it for you the expensive way. There are plenty of high-performing agencies who can help you, but it’s important to find ones that have experience marketing in your practice area. You don’t want to go with the firm, an agency that only does bankruptcy, for example, if you do PI. So that’s going to be critical. And there’s one more. And this we kind of touched on it before. But knowing how you capture leads, whether it’s that mostly through the phone. Right. Is that increasingly through chat? If your phone is ringing and there’s no one responding after hours, that is the first opportunity of improvement to create a better process.

Joe: [00:41:19] Because if that’s happening, you’re missing out. You don’t want that. If you have a chat already, that is great. The next step is to make sure that you have the best tool that is out there. So I recommend that you research all of them and make sure that you find something that can do things like help with follow ups so that when someone comes through and engages, you can send them that text, that email, say thank you and point them to that next step. Those tools are going to go a long way at improving, not just converting leads, visitors to leads, but also getting them to that next step towards becoming the client. If you don’t have a chat now, then just like before research, what are the best tools out there? And go get it. When you have a chat that’s going to open opportunities that you’re blind to right now, you don’t even see these people. They just look like another visitor. But maybe they could have engaged if you had something that invited them. And so I think I think that was three, right?

Liel: [00:42:20] Yeah, true. And very good ones. As a matter of fact, I well, I agree with them, I think by Grace’s look, she’s probably pretty much in agreement, even though, you know, these are big, they’re a high level. They’re really kind of like the fundamentals. They’ll definitely going to come to show results on a daily basis. Right. These are changes and implementations that just change entirely the trajectory of your marketing. And obviously, with that comes changing of the to the actual law firm.

Liel: [00:42:48] Joe, honestly, thank you so much. This is such a rich conversation that we could go on forever. Right. And I’m sure we both would have additional things that we would love to chat with you about, but we’ll just leave it up for another conversation. So thank you. And hopefully we’ll have you soon.

Joe: [00:43:04] I love it. Liel, Grace, you are both the best. Thank you.

Grace: [00:43:08] Thank you.

Joe: [00:43:08] Thanks.

Grace: [00:43:22] All right, guys, so that was wonderful, wasn’t it, Liel?

Liel: [00:43:26] Yes, it was great. I enjoyed the conversation.

Grace: [00:43:29] So as usual, guys, we’re going to do our little three takeaways, kind of actionable items that you can do today, right now to try and take advantage of this conversation that we just had.

Grace: [00:43:42] Right? About chatbots and conversational chatbots and AI chatbots. The first one for me is. If you don’t have a chatbot, a live chat or anything on your website right now, that isn’t a contact form or some standard way of communicating with your client or your client being able to communicate with you, that’s the very first thing you need to do. You need to get one on there. You need to do something about it. There’s a lot of options. I know and I understand that. And that’s kind of what we’re here for, to help you guys kind of pick those out, figure it out, and you can even contact Joe directly. The information will be in the notes, but you need to have one. I mean, you need to be there in the way that the client wants to communicate with you. And the easiest way right now has to do with chatbots. What do you think of that Liel? 

Liel: [00:44:33] I think, Grace, that you need to know where to use what I think not all traffic is the same. Not all traffic is worth the same. And you need to be able to very, very well identify who are your intent and superhot users that are going to just want to get on the phone right away with you and give them that option to do that. Right. Because why entertain them with a long conversation when you can get them on the phone right away?

Liel: [00:44:58] So not to dismiss that, but at the same time, you know, when you could actually turn cold or just warm leads into actual higher intent leads through a conversation with a bot. I still think, though, however, you need to at least no matter where you need to go for at least two types of conversation, never just stick to one. So don’t just do form submissions. Don’t just do phone calls. Don’t just do the live chatbot. Have at least options for that, because again, you don’t want to narrow your chances of being able to capture leads by just offering one type of conversion that’s really like me at a very, very high level, looking at how bots as a whole integrate to the whole conversion system in law firms so they can be very effective as long as you’re putting in front of the right type of traffic.

Grace: [00:45:52] So I think that’s a take away number two. Right. Look at what you have. Look and make sure that that this makes sense to put it on what, your home page on a specific landing page. Does it make sense to type on all of your pages? Right. That’s what you mean?

Liel: [00:46:07] Yes, because as I’ve said, I mean, if you’re running search network ads and the keywords you’re targeting are car accident lawyer near me, I mean, these people who are finding you through these types of ads. First of all, your point, you’re paying a lot to get these leads. So you want to get them on the phone ASAP. And if they’re willing and happy to do that, don’t take them away from that option. But I think, for instance, if you’re running a mass tort campaign on Facebook where you’re just getting on the way of people who have no interest whatsoever, at least not from the beginning, to have a conversation with you, you’re taking them and they click just out of curiosity. And they land on the page. And, you know, there is a tool, a bot there offering them to give them a more personalized rundown as to what is it that you’re doing there and the type of help that you can provide them with and such. I think that’s more interactive and more engaging than just coming to a landing page where you have, you know, a lot of text, like endless scrolling and maybe somewhere like a video that it’s partially irrelevant to the topic of the landing page.

Liel: [00:47:16] So I as I’ve said, I think is going to be traffic where your bot is going to be the preferred method of conversion. There are going to be sources where your telephone call is still going to continue winning. And, you know, as Joe said, telephone calls Tiel are even in the best-case scenario, telephone calls still get at least 50 percent of the conversions. Right. And now we were talking against, like super top high-performing bots. You still have in the traditional case scenario, between 70 to probably 90 or 95, I would say percentage of conversions happening on the phone. Right. That’s what the market is still used to as the traditional way of engaging with law firms. So I think this is a great opportunity. I just think you need to know where to plug it in.

Grace: [00:48:04] Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s part of what we always say, right. It’s look at what you have and make sure it fits for you and so and be there the way they want you to be there, meaning, like you said, at least two methods of communication or conversion that the person can contact you in, because if they want to call you, then they want to call you. They don’t want to fill out a chat that they would call you immediately. So, no, I completely agree with you. And, you know, there’s always caveats to our takeaways to a point where whatever you’re doing, you need to make sure it’s not done in a silo. Right. It cannot be just this can’t look at just one thing. You need to make sure that all of these things work for your company, work for your firm, work for you the way your processes currently work and. You’re not breaking anything, but you’re also enhancing, right, instead of adding another piece of software that may or may not help you or your client. So I think that’s super important to always keep that in the back of your mind. No matter what new piece of software, no matter what you’re doing, always make sure it’s part of the overall structure and process.

Grace: [00:49:09] So I think the last takeaway for me is. Make sure that whatever you’re doing and whatever method that you’re trying to take, do the intake, right, the initial qualification, the initial anything you need to reduce the amount of time. What do I mean by that? That you need to reduce the amount of time that it takes for you to get them on the phone. If that’s the method they chose to contact them one way or the other, however it is, they wanted you to contact them. And you need to reduce the amount of qualification questions because of standards and best practice for the most part, just to get them to make sure that this person is something you’re interested in. It’s two to five questions. Obviously, it can be difficult, right? I know. Like with some of these mass torts, they have a little bit more than that. I never go for more than 10 questions on what I would call eight. 

Liel: [00:50:00] That’s nuts. It’s a lot.

Grace: [00:50:02] No, no, not on chatbots. But let me finish. I promise. Not even I’m talking about general intakes for mass torts. I try to keep those to ten questions, not the chatbots. 

Liel: [00:50:13] Including the name? Or like case-related questions? 

Grace: [00:50:18] Case related questions. No more than 10. 

Liel: [00:50:20] On the phone? 

Grace: [00:50:21] On the actual intake side.

Liel: [00:50:23] OK, yeah.

Grace: [00:50:23] Not the initial qualifier. You’re right, ten is nuts. I’ve seen people do that on the initial qualification. I’m like, why would you need ten? You don’t need ten if you ask one, two, three, you should know by four, if not by three, that this is not going to work. This is not a case that your firm is interested in. So if you can’t get through, you know, two to five questions and know should you continue, your script is probably wrong or there’s something missing in your process. So that to me is kind of the last takeaways. Take a look at what you currently have. Again, same thing, right? But when it comes to the intake process and the initial qualification questions that you’re asking them, whether it be on a chatbot, on a phone call or any method with which you’re communicating with these potential clients, minimize it, make it easy for them, make it easy for you, and minimize the amount of time that you’re spending on both sides.

Liel: [00:51:20] Yeah, absolutely, Grace. I mean, there is there has to be the major qualifiers and disqualifiers. And those always need to be like on the very, very front of questions that are asked. Right. I just guess with all that said, it also kind of like touching on some of the other things we talked in the conversation is don’t in the sake of trying to put efficiency at the forefront, neglect empathy, and turn your conversation into an interrogation because obviously it’s not going to help with building rapport and it’s definitely not going to help with building trust. So you can still ask the right questions. But while doing it in a caring and friendly and empathetic manner, what do you think?

Grace: [00:52:07] You always need to be friendly, empathetic, and anything that you’re dealing with, people that are hurt.

Liel: [00:52:13] Yeah. 

Grace: [00:52:14] And it’s what we would do with each other. So in particular, when you’re a law firm, you need to be empathetic. You need to be. But also quick. Right. And in the nicest way possible for both of you, because you don’t want to waste their time and you know, they don’t really want to waste your time either. You think that most people want to really rehash all the things that they’ve dealt with and what got them to this point to ask for a lawyer? No, they don’t. So for both sides, it’s best to minimize everything and just get to the point for everyone and be empathetic while you’re doing it.

Liel: [00:52:46] Totally Grace and I one hundred percent agree with what you say. Right. You still need to gather the information, but also very important. That’s my last thing here is once you got it, make note and make sure that anyone who’s going to be interacting with that potential client or client has all the info that you need. Right. So that the client doesn’t have to go over and over and over and over again their circumstances and story with every single member that you’re interacting, because that’s also exhausting.

Liel: [00:53:14] So, Grace, what a great conversation. I loved it. I mean, we started talking about AI intake and we end up talking about empathy and efficiencies here and that’s what we do here. So next week we’ll do it all over again, right.

Grace: [00:53:29] That’s right.

Liel: [00:53:30] OK, Grace.

Liel: [00:53:31] Have a great rest of your day.

Grace: [00:53:32] You too. Thanks, Liel.

Liel: [00:53:34] Bye.

Liel: [00:53:36] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers, leave us a review, and send us your questions to ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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