Catastrophic injury cases are don’t present themselves every day. When they do, you know that this can be a career-changing opportunity for your law firm, but first, you have to navigate the complexities of your clients’ injuries long-term consequences. Luckily there are life care planners.

Kelly Campbell from CARDINAL LifeCare joins us for a conversation about having the right partner to examine, interpret, and apply all relevant medically related information of a catastrophic injury case can help you achieve the highest possible settlement for your client.

Kelly explains why communication with her patients is a critical element in successfully handling her cases. She stresses the importance of having interpreters that can ease the communication between you and the client and presenting all documentation and forms in a language, the client can understand.

This episode will help you better understand the value of having the right life care planner on your side from an early stage the next time your marketing efforts get you in front of a potential seven-figure settlement case.

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Transcript

Liel: [00:00:00] Catastrophic injuries are the most desired cases by personal injury attorneys, but after you land one of these cases, how can you ensure you get the highest settlement for your client and results that can forever change your law firm? I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media. And this is In camera podcast where we are always open for new, valuable partnerships.

Liel: [00:00:53] Welcome to In Camera podcast, private legal marketing conversations. Grace, welcome back for another conversation. How are you today?

Grace: [00:01:01] I’m good Liel, it’s great to see you again.

Liel: [00:01:04] It’s great to see you, Grace. It’s always great to see you, Grace.

Liel: [00:01:07] And here’s the thing right this week, just like any other week, it’s been pretty crazy, right. And I’m not going to talk about everything that doesn’t have to do with tech or marketing. I’m just focusing right now on tech and marketing, Grace. So here’s just a few things for you to keep in mind. We’re not really going to focus on them on this conversation, but an update on tic tok. Right.

Liel: [00:01:30] So now we have Wal-Mart and Oracle in the mix for potential acquisition of the US operations of Tik Tok. So that’s crazy, Grace, that’s really, really, really take the conversation and the whole platform to a whole different level. So that’s super interesting and something worth diving into at a later stage to really understand what’s going to be the future of Tik Tok as a platform if that was the part that worked to take. Now, the other one, which this one is really, really interesting, is that apparently Apple is taking some serious steps and considerations towards entering the search game. And we’ve mentioned this before. But that can be a super game-changer for the search industry, because as you very well know, Safari is the number one browser used across all kinds of devices, whether we were mobile or desktop. And so if Apple search becomes the default search engine for Safari, that already takes it automatically to number two search engine used right after Google. And so that supermassive. Right. But we don’t know yet. A lot of this is speculation. And so we’ll just gonna have to wait and see. But while we do that today, we have a really exciting conversation, Grace, because a lot of what we talk here in the podcast, right. Is how to land the best cases and how to really get the most out of your marketing investments.

Liel: [00:03:01] But what do you actually do when you ended up landing what is regarded as a catastrophic injury case? Right. And what are the right steps to take to actually ensure that you get the most out of this case for your client? Right. The most important part of it, but also for your law firm. So for that, we have a special guest today, Grace. And I would love if you could please introduce her to us.

Grace: [00:03:25] So for today’s conversation, we are pleased to welcome Kelly Campbell to discuss the impact of life care planning and getting the most out of your injury cases with over 20 years of experience in the health care industry. Kelly realized the value she could provide at the intersection of the medical and legal industries. She decided to create cardinal life care consulting. Kelly’s experience working at a national clinical level as a nurse and perfusionist has made her an expert on policy procedures, orientations standards of care and more. Kelly, welcome to In Camera podcast.

Kelly: [00:03:59] Hey, thank you so much for having me today, Grace and Liel. I’ve been a listener of your podcast here, and it’s always so informative. I can’t wait to Google and learn a little bit more about this Walmart acquisition. So it’s just a true honor to now be a part of it and a guest on your podcast.

Liel: [00:04:20] Kelly, it’s a real pleasure to have you here and thank you so much for creating the time for having this conversation with us. Kelly, where does this podcast find you? And we know you are in the midst of a thunderstorm right now, so we are particularly grateful for making this happen.

Kelly: [00:04:37] Yes, so, excuse all the thunder and background noise here, but cardinal life care is based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That being said, we are a nationwide company and we’re proud to say that we currently represent about 30 states right now.

Liel: [00:04:53] Wow, that’s amazing, Kelly. And I think what would be very valuable for you to share with our audience is how does Cardinal Care help specifically law firms? What’s the role that your organization has in helping law firms get the most out of their cases for the patients and also for the law firm?

Kelly: [00:05:13] Right. So we do represent med mal cases, plaintiffs and defense, and criminal defense attorneys. So when you would want to contact a life care planner? Preferably cardinal life care, obviously, but a life care planner in general is once you have an injured client who we call our patients. And the ideal time, as soon as you have an intake of an injured person. And what you can think of as a life care planner is essentially the nerdy number girl, nerdy-number person. And we will help put the evidence based dollar to your case. And what we do is based on our clinical background and as a life care planner, we attend a school to go ahead and put the dollar value to your client, our patients’ injury.

Grace: [00:06:15] Wow. So you sound like you provide quite a bit of different services, a full range from medical cost projections, life care plans. So which cases do you find are best for medical cost projections as opposed to, let’s say, a full life care plan?

Kelly: [00:06:31] But you know, what I generally would recommend is to start out, remember this, medical costs projection, M for mediation life care plan, L for litigation. If you think your case has a really strong chance of settling here at Cardinal will recommend a medical costs projection because that is a cost savings to you, the law firm and our patients. And if it moves over into litigation, we can roll that medical cost projection into a full-blown life care plan. And just remember that the medical costs projection is not going to decrease the value of your case by any means because that person still has the same injuries.

Liel: [00:07:23] So for someone like me, Kelly, that I don’t necessarily know a lot of this part of the handling of an injury case. Right. Would you mind walk me over a little bit the process of what does it mean to create a life care plan?

Kelly: [00:07:39] Ok, so this is from the very beginning. And I just had the honor of hosting a national conference for life care planners. And we ended the conference with the topic, Train Your Dragon and Attorney You are the dragon. We need the case records and we need to be involved in the case as soon as possible. And the reason is we will help identify the care needs or the missing care for your clients. And I’m going to be repetitive in saying our patients, because that’s who we are, we are a clinically-based life care firm. So starting a life care plan and even a medical costs projection, the sooner we can be involved in your case, the better, and that starts with a medical records review of the injuries and then from there we’ll generally have a discussion with our patients to see exactly what’s going on.

Kelly: [00:08:49] And then we may or may not be asked to collaborate with experts, an expert report. Or recommend what experts are needed for your case, for example. Do we need to find an expert that’s a standard of care for the hospital to just really add the extra emphasis of this went wrong or if it’s a defense case, do we need the expert on standard of care? So you got that note. Everything was followed and we’re protecting our client. So we’re able to identify clinically your strengths and your weaknesses in your case. Now, as an expert witness for the life care planning, we will. As I said before, work with the numbers to bring value to your case. But what that does for your patient is provide the care they need in the future.

Liel: [00:09:55] Kelly, that’s you know, you’ve mentioned there, right, that the best is to get your expertise right from an early stage. But really, when is that early stage? When does someone else or an attorney should consider bringing your expertise to the table? And with that, what kind of cases actually kind of like qualify for this? Right. Because there are injuries and or injuries. And I’m assuming that life plan is something that is applicable for injuries that have life term consequences. So can you give us a little bit more of guidelines there?

Kelly: [00:10:35] Sure. So our firm. We do life care plans for the catastrophically injured and the unfortunate traumatic brain injury, amputations, spinal cord injury, quadriplegic, those are considered catastrophic injuries. Now, at the same time, we also do the non-catastrophic injuries. And those are still injuries for your clients, our patients, those individuals that have the whiplash injury, but does not recover or it is not anticipated to recover, excuse me, they are continuing to not improve it’s those clients of yours, our patients that we see, they’re not the typical patients that is going to heal and recover. Those are the patients we can say, hey, they’re going to need physical therapy and they may need some adjustment. They may need some things in the future. And that’s why we like to be involved from the very beginning. We may be able to help clinically, which in turn helps legally and value-wise with the case.

Liel: [00:12:03] So before we move on to the next question. Right. I think there’s a very important component here, because you’re saying that you’re kind of talking to all parties, right? You’re talking to the medical side of things, but you’re also interacting directly with the patient and, you know, coming from a multicultural bilingual marketing agency. I want to know, how do you navigate through the complexities of having to communicate at times with patients that are not English speakers, how you solve that challenge?

Kelly: [00:12:37] That is an excellent point. And in fact, at the conference, we addressed that issue and the importance of having a translator available because it’s imperative not just from the legal perspective, but from the clinical perspective. So here at Cardinal within our firm, we do have translators available. And if you know your law firm does not have translators within your firm, I recommend having one on speed dial because you never know who or what type of language is your first language for your client.

Kelly: [00:13:19] And that is the recommended primary language to be discussing such important issues. And I’ve said we represent 30 of the states. What that means, though, is we still utilize a Russian translator, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish. It’s imperative. And I’m so glad you brought that.

Liel: [00:13:42] I couldn’t agree with you more.

Kelly: [00:13:45] Yeah. And it’s also important to have documentation in their first primary language as well.

Liel: [00:13:53] Yeah, I agree. Right. Because a lot of these documents need their approval, need their signature and their consent. And it’s always not a great trust builder when you’re handing out someone a document, even when you’re doing it in good faith and telling them, I need your signature here, but they cannot necessarily understand what’s in there. Right. And we see that so often, so really, really valuable process that you have in there.

Liel: [00:14:21] And one that it’s very necessary is just like what you are saying. Right. You cannot navigate these cases and these procedures without actually acknowledging that not everyone is native or fluent English speaker. You have to adapt. Right? It’s super, super important. Grace, how many times we’ve seen attorneys are actually doing marketing in different languages, primarily Spanish, but then when it’s showtime, they can’t deliver. They don’t have the infrastructure to handle the actual case in Spanish. Right. And this is such an important component here. So that’s, I think, a really great and valuable solution that you’re bringing to the table. Just that alone, right? I mean, leave aside all the added value that you add in actually handling and evaluating the treatment, but is just so valuable.

Liel: [00:15:12] Now, before we move on sorry, Grace, I know I’m holding here your next coming question, but I really want to understand, you know, why would it not be enough to just rely on the treating doctors input when it comes down to a case? Right. Because oftentimes a call of someone who had an accident comes through one of the first questions asked, have you been to the doctor? Yes. No, disregarding they’ll want to have that client with a doctor ASAP. Now, why is it important to bring someone like you to the table and not just, you know, hear what the treating doctor has to say?

Kelly: [00:15:58] Well, I want to clarify. It is important to hear what the treating doctor has to say. They’re the treating physician. What I do is I collaborate with the treating physician. And remember, it goes back to me being the nerdy number girl, I’m going to take the treating physicians recommendation or the patient’s treatment trends or evidence-based medicine and help put that treatment plan together with the numbers. So everything I’m doing is I am not going outside of the scope of practice. It is imperative to rely on treating positions, to rely on the expert report. And then my job is to help put the numbers together. And that’s where the life care planning certification comes in.

Grace: [00:16:52] So actually, I wanted to ask you something, because it kind of actually goes back to the beginning of our conversation and you use the term a few times standard of care. Do you mind explaining just a little bit what you mean by standard of care for the audience here? Because, you know, we’re not. Most of us aren’t doctors. Most of us aren’t nurses or even some of us aren’t even lawyers. Right. We have marketers listening on here. And so when you use that term, I just want to understand how that, what that means in terms of the life care planning and when you go to the patients and then how that even kind of falls in with translating, you know, I mean, just like all of it, because standard of care, I know. Means something specific to you. But I can tell you what it means to me. But obviously, I prefer to hear what that means in terms of cardinal life care and planning.

Kelly: [00:17:46] Ok, so in terms of cardinal life care or life care planning in general, we will look at the recommendations and the treatment trends. And we can’t just we have to be unbiased in our report and consequently our numbers. So as dear as our patient may be, we can’t say, oh, he deserves the moon and back, even if I think he does. So we rely on, quote, the standard of care, quote, the evidence-based medicine. And what that is, is evidence-based medicine is literature that stands the test of time journals, peer-reviewed specific to orthopedic and you know. Surgeons or orthopedic surgeons. Well, let’s go back to cardinal, because I’m a perfusionist at heart-lung bypass. OK, so a surgeon in good faith, a heart surgeon in good faith, cannot look at a heart and say, I think I’m going to go ahead and do five bypasses when all of the diagnostics really go to two. That’s a standard of care that he has to stick to. So what are reports are going to reflect is the standard of care. So we’re not going to the moon and back for our patients. We also are meeting the general accepted medicine. And we also don’t want they were on the defense side and we don’t want to be, you know, working and be a paid gun for the defense and minimize with the patients. And that’s why I’ve been so diligent about saying patients. What this patient needs, if they need two bypasses, they need two bypasses. And this is not the typical life care plan. I’m talking in general because I’m a perfusionist, but that’s the standard of care. And then what you end up finding is evidence-based medicine in the peer-reviewed journals or associations, and that’s their medical guidelines. And we support that in our documentation for the nerdy numbers.

Grace: [00:20:09] Thank you so much. Because that honestly, that helped me clarify and understand sort of where your level setting expectations. Right, for lack of a better term, I guess, across the board. And you’re using evidence, empirical evidence to back up whatever it is that you’re putting together for the law, the lawyers, and the patients as well. And so thank you for the explanation.

Kelly: [00:20:30] Exactly. So essentially, our reports are twofold. The attorneys are going to want to see it for the number. The patients are going to want to see it. Yes, for the numbers, but they’re also going to want to see it. What’s this report going to do for me medically? And I’ll share something with you now. Why I got into Cardinal Life Care Planning and developed it was I’ve actually had a life care plan made for me. I had a severe injury, and prior to my own injury, I had no idea this field existed. And, you know, being clinical, sorry attorneys, you know, I don’t know that I would have ever really crossed over to the legal side. I seem to know my sister is an anesthesiologist, my other cardiac physician assistant, my cousin’s interventional cardiologist, we are a medical family. So for me now to be in the legal industry, it’s I’m no oddball out at our Thanksgiving dinner, you know, but what I learned when I got my life care plan was as a patient, I wanted to see what the value was. But I was most sincerely interested in how am I going to live the rest of my life? What are the recommendations? How am I going to drive again? You know, those types of things. And that’s what a life care planning report is supposed to include. And I can guarantee that’s what Cardinal Life Care does because I’ve been the patient.

Liel: [00:22:23] Thank you so much for sharing that. That’s quite a story, Kelly. You know, obviously, a lot of these cases go to trial, right. And how can you support or what kind of support you provide for cases that actually go to trial?

Kelly: [00:22:44] Great question. And why I’m saying that is because we really pride ourselves on our report and our settlements record whether their medical cost projections or life care plan the way we develop our report.

Kelly: [00:23:02] And I’m sorry if this is turning into an infomercial at this point, but what we do with our standards of care and evidence-based medicine, when you’re going into your mediation, which a lot of states are, it’s mandatory. The other side, whether you’re a plaintiff or defense and we represent both, will realize, we’re going to have trouble presenting this to the jury and depending what this is and allows for negotiations to start. So if our cases do move into the litigation phase, we have a great, great team.

Kelly: [00:23:47] I’ve tested them out and Greta will attest to that. I’m a colleague. While everyone can probably hear I’m a Chatty Kelly here and we have a fabulous team, I couldn’t be more proud.

Grace: [00:24:01] That’s fantastic and chatty Kelly, in a good way. So I’m very happy to have you on this podcast. So as part of that question, though, yes, you have a very high settlement success rate with your medical cost projections, right? I mean, that’s kind of we just talked about. Why do you think it’s so high? You know, you can do a little bit of a shameless plug here. I get it. It’s Cardinal Life Care. It’s you. So tell us why you?

Kelly: [00:24:29] The way we develop our report, we have a very strong methodology. And we go to the point that we know that mediation is a very important step leading into litigation and we develop our medical cost projections or life care plans so that they’re ready for trial right away as our preliminary reports are just going to be ready. And as they head into their pretrial, the attorneys are already ready. So the opposing counsel is maybe a little bit nervous. And we help, our you know, we help by, again, backing and seeing the nerdy numbers with following our usual customary reasonable pricing.

Grace: [00:25:25] So you give them a package basically that the other team doesn’t get.

Kelly: [00:25:30] I’d like to say that. Yeah. Now, that being said, there are fabulous life care planners throughout the country. There really are. And a lot of them are my friends. That’s why I want to make sure this hasn’t turned into too much of an infomercial here. But it is a life care plan or is essential to an injured person.

Grace: [00:25:55] Makes sense. Honestly, my daughter had a similar issue and I don’t know if she had a life care planner, but I’m going to go check. What ended up, in the end, was quite we were very happy with it, but I could see how a life care planner would have been from the very beginning because she got hurt when she was a minor in a pretty bad car accident and broke her wrist. And she’s a dancer. So lifetime issue. Right. So, you know, it’s I totally understand what you’re saying. And it would have been nice, honestly, would have been great to have this podcast before that happened years and years ago. So I would have known about life care planning and how it could have benefited the case. Right. So I appreciate that explanation more than you know. And that I think I’m sure our audience will appreciate this podcast and the explanation that you’ve given for life care planners. So.

Kelly: [00:26:44] Right. And what you just pointed out is the twofold factor you would have liked to have known about the clinical benefits of yours. For your daughter, and it would have helped the case and that’s what the attorneys can also recognize is. Your clients will recognize that you’re helping them and that referral will also go that way, that you help them that way as well.

Grace: [00:27:13] Very true. You are truly giving them the whole package, right, because you’re helping them on the front end and on the back end. And if it goes to litigation as well with the report that the other team doesn’t get.

Kelly: [00:27:23] That’s right.

Grace: [00:27:24] Normally, at the, we’re coming towards the end of the conversation and we like to ask for what we call three takeaways from you. Three very important things that we grab from the conversation as kind of we’ve been speaking and what are three things, whether it be actionable that they can do right now or something they can think about and then do that our listeners can take away from this conversation. Three main takeaways for you.

Kelly: [00:27:52] Number one. Think of your client as a patient as well with this time. I know it’s hard. You’re an attorney or a marketer, but that perspective or that change of thought pattern might make you start realizing the value of including a life care planner. Which then brings you to the actual medical side of things, and Liel brought up the fabulous points of making sure that communication is proper, even if they’re bilingual, if their primary language on such important topics, be ready, you know, it offers the service of a translator. It’s often. If they’re my clients, patients are bilingual, I’ll say to them, do you prefer which one? We’ll have it, have them ready for you. And sometimes our conversations switch back and forth. I just have the translator ready and it just that invaluable. I do believe because, I’m not necessarily the most tech-savvy person if someone starts talking codes and stuff. I can understand, you know, so. And that’s not a legal situation or a medical situation, so that be my second thing and the third is. Oh, goodness. Enjoy your job. I know you’re helping people, know you are helping people, whether you’re a plaintiff, you’re helping the injured, whether you’re defense and helping the physicians protect their practice. And if you’re a criminal and you’re including us in a case, there’s an injured party, so you are helping.

Liel: [00:29:53] Kelly, thank you so much. I think these are fantastic takeaways. I like all of them, really. It’s going to be very hard Grace just to make ours afterward. Right, because these are already fantastic takeaways, Kelly. Thank you again so much. You’ve just mentioned that you’ve had a conference in that you participated in.

Liel: [00:30:13] If our listeners would like to learn a little bit more about you or if you’d like to participate in one of those seminars that you give or so, how can they connect with you? What’s the best way for them to know what you’re up to in the next coming months?

Kelly: [00:30:27] So CardinalLifeCare dot com is the best way. We have a website that provides all of our services and information and at the same time, you can email me directly.

Kelly: [00:30:42] I am always available. Kelly@cardinallifecare.com. So thank you so much. I really enjoyed the conversation. I hope I didn’t dominate it too much. I am just very passionate about my patients.

Liel: [00:31:00] Kelly, thank you so much. I think I’ve got a lot of very valuable information. I got educated on something that I really didn’t know much coming into this conversation. So thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. And we hope to have you back sometime soon to either follow up on this conversation or talk about something new or else. Right. Maybe the Wal-Mart Tik tok acquisition if it ends up happening, right?

Kelly: [00:31:22] Absolutely. I mean, like I said, I am a listener, so I enjoy everything you have to offer guests.

Liel: [00:31:32] Thank you so much. Please stay safe.

Kelly: [00:31:34] Thanks so much for having me, everyone.

Grace: [00:31:35] Thank you.

Liel: [00:31:44] Grace, what a great conversation, honestly, this is completely new to me. I’m still digesting a lot of what’s being shared here, but it makes so much sense. Grace. You wait right months sometimes. To land a case of this magnitude. Right. And when it finally comes, you need to make sure that you take the best possible steps and strategy to ensure no one but you do the best and provide the best service to your client. Right. And secondly, so you as a law firm can also get the most out of the case itself. So, you know, it’s just kind of like one of those realizations that there is a lot of work and there is a lot of expertise that comes into really creating and bringing the case to the level that is deserving. Right. I mean, it’s not automatic. You need to actually build up the case. And what Kelly does helps a lot. I don’t know what you think? 

Grace: [00:32:50] Certainly. I mean, this is, I guess, should be a component of working the case. Right. And it’s not something I ever really thought about before, but it makes perfect sense. And I think her giving us her personal history and story as to why she got into it, it makes perfect sense because I think it helps other people. I know it helped me kind of illuminated what it was that she did, you know, in reality. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that an attorney needs to see I mean, they already supposed to see this as helping people right there, helping their clients. And, you know, this is just another tool in your toolkit to help your clients to the best of your ability and also your business. Right. I mean, getting the most out of a catastrophic case. 

Liel: [00:33:34] Absolutely agree, but it’s completely out of the outside of the area of expertise of an attorney. Right. Even if you’ve had a case like these before, you know, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you already in automatic have all of the insights that you need in order to be able to really evaluate the long term consequences of these things and to know that you could partner up with someone that could actually bring all that expertise and, you know, help you through that process. I think it’s very, very valuable. As you’ve just said, Grace, I’ve never thought about it before and it makes all the sense in the world. Now, let’s talk about the takeaways, because I think really, Kelly should hear things that are super valuable. Some of them you think common sense, but not quite right. I mean, we oftentimes make the mistake not to give enough importance to those. So Grace. Let’s go through them.

Grace: [00:34:28] So the first one that she even mentioned and I wanted to kind of further explain because I feel the same way. It’s think of your client as a patient, too. And you know what? That is super hard for most people. Right, because that’s empathy. Putting yourself in someone else’s shoes is very difficult for a lot of people. But as an attorney, you generally are able to do that. Why? Because that’s why you kind of went into law, because you just want to help people, right? That’s the whole point. Is that be the reason you became an attorney to help people? So if you can think of your client as a patient too, meaning, put yourself in their shoes, and truly help them as much as you possibly can. Part of that would be life care planning, I think. Right. That’s kind of what I took away from this, to get the most value out of the case for both the firm and for your client. What do you think, Liel?

Liel: [00:35:19] Yeah, I agree with you, Grace. I mean, again, you need to keep your clients in mind and see, you know, what’s going to be not just good for them on the short run or what may seem like the most tempting resolution to these, but really think, particularly in these cases of the life-long consequences that these may have and make sure that you’re providing them with all of the possible options so they can also make well-educated decisions about their future. Because you know, it’s the responsibility of the lawyer and the medical team to ensure that clients are making good choices for themselves and for their families. So I couldn’t agree more with that to take away Grace.

Grace: [00:36:10] And we’re going to have to add to it. But you know, it’s funny because I know you were in the hotel and the service industry for a very long time. So I kind of liken it to that honestly, because, you know, when you go in and you talk to a travel agent, right. You want to package for yourself or you, your family based on this, that the other and I know it’s obviously not exactly the same, ones in an injury you got hurt. But the idea of having a travel agent for your plan for your life and making sure your injuries and everything are taken care of. To me, it’s kind of the same thing, like get the package that you need that’s going to take care of you to the best of the ability of the doctors and what the standards of care based on evidence, et cetera, et cetera. So I know I keep kind of harping on that one, but I think it’s so important to be as empathetic as you possibly can as a lawyer, as this person is your patient, this person’s your client. Right. So that’s in service. That’s in anything we do.

Liel: [00:37:07] Yeah. Good point there Grace, agreed. I agree.

Grace: [00:37:12] Now to me, this one I think is for everybody and all the time, no matter what. And that is she’s mentioned make sure your communication is proper. What does that mean to me? That means your communication in every form, every way possible is in the language that they prefer and in the messaging that they want to receive. So that means calls, text messages, emails, chat bots, whatever it is that you do, however you communicate with your client or patient, do it in the preferred method, and communicate with them in the preferred language. What do you think Liel?

Liel: [00:37:50] Grace, you know what? You’ve said it best. I cannot add anything more to that is just that needs to be setting-stone. It’s just the way it is, right? Keep the communications in the channels that your clients want to communicate with you as much as possible. And if you’re not there, if you see if you keep on noticing that people want to communicate with you in a different way that you currently don’t have available, then make a change. Get yourselves to the right platforms where your clients are. And not only are you going to have better communications with your clients, but you’re also potentially going to see an increase in business. It’s just the way it is. Right. So I totally agree with you, Grace. That’s very well put. And you know, I’m with you on that one. One more.

Grace: [00:38:39] Ok, so the last one she mentioned enjoying your job and know that you’re helping people. I want to take that a little bit, even a step further. I know a lot of people it can be hard, right, to not maybe be bogged down, especially right now during COVID. People have lost their jobs. People have had issues with jobs. Jobs have changed. Things have, everything’s changing. Right. So I want to take it a step further in terms of enjoying your job. Know that you really when you’re doing what you’re doing, you’re helping people, whether it’s in the life care planning, if you’re an attorney, even if you’re a staff member who is doing the intake, OK, it doesn’t matter what part you are in this ecosystem, but in the ecosystem of legal and medical, at some point, somehow, some way, what you’re doing is helping people and primarily the people we speak to are marketers and attorneys. So they themselves are actually directly either assisting or communicating the message of how to be assisted by these attorneys. So that’s how I look at it. And not just enjoy your job, but really know that you are a part of an ecosystem of people, particularly right now with COVID going on in life care planning. And all of these things are still just as important, if not more important now than ever. And that is you are part of an ecosystem of the world and people. And honestly, we couldn’t have even been shown any more of that than COVID affecting the whole world. So to me, that last take away is about knowing that you’re making some kind of a difference by communicating in the method they want, by being there, by helping people, by doing all the things that you’re doing in your current position. You are somehow helping somebody. And that’s important to remember.

Liel: [00:40:29] Yes, Grace, you’re absolutely right there. I think we’re all very lucky to be working in an industry that actually gives you that much gratification instantaneously. Right. You’re really making an impact on people’s lives. And, you know, if you don’t get, you know, a boost on that, if you don’t enjoy that, then this is the wrong industry for you. Right? Because that’s what it’s all about. It’s people dealing with people. It’s people helping people. And you know, I personally, it’s one of the reasons why for me, going back to what you’ve said about having a background in hospitality, the shift was really seamless because I moved away from one industry where I was all the time interacting and helping with people to another industry where I’m all the time interacting and helping people. And the gratification Grace is the same, you know.

Liel: [00:41:30] And I must say, in some ways, it’s more meaningful because here, right, you’re really giving an opportunity to people to get control back over their lives, right? It’s lovely to make, you know, couples proposal a special moment at a fancy restaurant. That’s also a very, very nice thing to be part of. But when you can actually help a brother navigate through the complexities of helping his, you know, injured brother who failed from a roof and is now sitting in the hospital in a coma, that also is enormously gratifying. And, you know, that’s what we do, Grace. 

Grace: [00:42:17] It adds a whole other layer Liel. I feel, you know, because and that’s why I always bring it back right to what we used to do, what I used to do, what you used to do. Because for us, it’s always been about helping people. And, you know, now I feel like with our marketing, with our side of it, we are putting out messaging and we only work with law firms that we feel are partners with us and that we feel can truly help the clients. I don’t know about you, but we’ve said this quite a few times. I’m pretty sure you have too. We only work with law firms that we know are, I’m not saying that there’s maybe there’s, I mean, there’s just like other people out there that are potentially with issues this that the other that to me is neither here nor there. But when it comes to working with law firms, we only work with law firms that can help. And the people that work with us also know that we are also upstanding and we want to make sure we can help. And the way we help is by providing the marketing services that we do. And so I feel like we can directly connect with not just the clients, but with our clients as well as law firms, and help them drive empathy and show who they really are. So that’s why I love the podcast.

Liel: [00:43:32] Grace, perfectly said beautiful message. I’m just going to leave it there because you really killed it with the takeaways today. I was just kind of like adding on to what you have already said. So, Grace, thank you again for another great conversation. We’ll be back next week, hopefully, and we’ll have something great to talk about again.

Liel: [00:43:56] So thank you. Stay safe. Have a great rest of your day.

Grace: [00:44:03] You too. 

Liel: [00:44:03] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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