ICP Logo

S3 E38: Opt-In


ICP Logo

S3 E38: Opt-In





Contact IO is a conference held once a year in Denver, where marketers, call center operators, entrepreneurs, and technology leaders come together to discuss and explore the latest in telecommunications tech. This year the Contact IO took place the second week of September, and Grace was there.

Grace shares everything with us, from the conference experience, set-up, and exhibitor hall organization to the trending topics at the conference and what recommendations you should consider implementing for your law firm’s communications.

And, if you ever answered a phone call from a local number only to realize the call was coming from a call center outside of your state and wonder why it is showing up as a local call, that is the result of a local presence configuration on their telephone system. While it may seem clever, our conversations explore why it is not a good practice for law firms and what you should consider doing instead to increase your answer rate or, even better, getting the leads to call you back.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

Enjoy the show? Please don’t forget to subscribe, tell your coworkers, and leave us a review!


Liel: [00:00:01] If you collect emails and mobile phones from your leads, you’ll want to reconsider your email marketing strategy. Since nearly 100 percent of the people that you send text messages to are likely to open them. In contrast, only 20 percent of your email recipients will read them. I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market. And This is in Camera Podcast and we opt-in yes to text message communications.

Liel: [00:00:59] Welcome to in camera Podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations, we are back, as always, Grace and I are here ready to have another conversation. But first, Grace, how are you today?

Grace: [00:01:10] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:12] I’m great Grace. And I really mean it when I ask you, How are you today? Because you’ve been moving, girl, you’re being all over the place, right? You you’ve just come back from a conference in Denver. You’re going to be going to PILMMA next week. And just before we got into this conversation, you were just telling me about everything else that you have lined up. And you know, I thought I was busy doing two conferences in one month, but you’re certainly are taking that to the next level.

Grace: [00:01:39] Yeah. So it seems like September and October are just going to be travel months for me. I came from, like you said, a conference just recently. It was September, about a week ago, actually now. And it was contact.io it was in Denver, Colorado. Very cool conference of software, kind of specific right on like communication software and that kind of thing. It’s very cool. And then, yes, upcoming. I’m going to be going to PILMMA next week where I’m actually going to be speaking on data mining. And then right after that, I’m going to be going to Aspen to the women and Mass, which is also a really cool conference where all-female attorneys and vendors and people involved in mass torts, women involved in mass torts get to kind of meet and happens once a year. Very big conference. Very cool. My first time going to that one personally, so I’m excited about it. And then right after, as we all know, mass torts made perfect. That would be mid-October.

Liel: [00:02:41] Yeah. So that’s the thing, right for anyone who’s trying to hear. Keep up with the timeline. Everything that Grace just said here is within a period of two weeks, so it’s pretty remarkable. So Grace, That’s actually very cool. And for our audience who have already started to put in together the pieces here. Yes, next week is PILMMA. So that means that we will be recording an episode live from PILMMA and those episodes we never know what to expect, right? They may be a little review of what’s happening on the event. There may be some impressions and takeaways like we don’t necessarily have something already outlined for it, but they tend to be interesting because, you know, we’re seeing each other and life conversations tend to just happen and evolving to different things. So that’s great. Grace, now I want to hear about your last week’s conference because that’s very interesting, right? It’s not a conference that is specifically focused with or, you know, has a legal approach to it. It’s more about technology and communications as a whole. So tell us a little bit about it who goes to those conferences and what was the center, the central topic or theme this year?

Grace: [00:03:56] So contact.io, which I found out that this is a conference that was kind of brought out that had recently been bought out within this year. And it’s kind of in what they told me was it’s brand new as contact.io this year.

Liel: [00:04:10] Mm hmm.

Grace: [00:04:10] But it’s a conference that apparently leads and rolls up to the January conference of Leads Con, which a lot of us know leads.con is one of the biggest like lead conversion, right? Contact kind of communication, all the software, everything for leads right in one place. So this was not legal specific at all. It was software. But there were some lead vendors there, right? Because these people need to feed what I call the beast of communication and feed the leads. So yeah, there were quite a few lead vendors that were there and there were some mass torts leads that lead vendors. So I really, yeah, there were it was about half of them did mass torts.

Liel: [00:04:52] So, so wait one second. So people buying there were actual lawyers or there were other agencies that do lead generation.

Grace: [00:05:01] Other agencies that do lead generation were there.

Liel: [00:05:04] That’s amazing Grace.

Grace: [00:05:05] Yeah, I was able to get some contacts there to find new people that can provide us with mass tort leads, not cases, but leads, which is, you know, yeah, that’s fine.

Liel: [00:05:15] I mean, yeah, well, that’s where it all starts, right? Well, it all starts. And particularly that you brought up your conversation on data mining. You buy leads in the shape of data pretty much, and then you need to do the mining. You cannot just expect that there are going to be cases serve to you on a silver tray. There is a lot of work that needs to be done from getting that raw contact details and translating that driving all the way down to identifying whether there is a case there or not and and if there is pursuing it.

Grace: [00:05:50] Exactly. So I was definitely surprised, right? Because this is my first time at this particular conference and it’s the first time they’ve had this conference in a couple years, so the setup of the conference, you know, how you and I are always complaining about they don’t care about the vendors, you know, they don’t give time to the people,

Liel: [00:06:07] Always Complaining,

Grace: [00:06:09] Right?

Liel: [00:06:09] Always complaining. If you if you ever come across great and eye on a trade show, you will see us somewhere next to the coffee station or the water station or wherever, wherever the refreshments are. And it’s just all yapping all day about how the conference is not taking care of us well enough.

Grace: [00:06:28] Exactly, especially the more you spend, right, you’re like, you’ve got to go pay to play. Well, you know, they set this up a very novel way that I’ve seen, right? Especially not in legal. They allowed you to attend the conference, meaning the exhibitors and people that were there had an app. And you could say, I want to attend this, this particular seminar from 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. or whatever. And it was all electronic, right? Obviously, it’s a communication software conference, so they have to be all, you know, techie cutting. Yes, it was so cool. I was making meetings with people through the app. I was setting up scheduling like the sessions I want to attend, and then they notified everybody pretty much every time something was happening through the app through push notifications, and they didn’t open the booth or exhibit hall until pretty much the middle of the day. They gave lunch out for everybody, and then they open the exhibit hall in like the early afternoon. And so people actually came into the exhibit hall and the way the vendors were set up, it was not tons of vendors. There were, I’d say, maybe just the outside wall and then one main section in the middle for the sponsor vendor. Yeah, but there wasn’t tons of vendors, and even our competitors were super friendly coming over to us asking us what we do. We would ask them what they did. It was a very great set up for vendors, I have to say.

Liel: [00:07:58] Yeah, just, you know, as a side note to that Grace, because I think I agree with you there. I think it’s better to have a reduced hours of exhibitor hall availability than having it run and be open. You know, just be open from the moment the conference in the in the in the panel start until the end of the day because at the end of the day, you know, during the talks and panels. And so you would assume that most of the people are actually there. And so there is really not much happening on the exhibitor halls. Yet when you have a limited schedule, you create more momentum, right? And so I think there needs to be there a little bit of a fine line because also if you’re very limited, you’re you’re not able to really touch base with everyone who may really be interested in you. You may experience a lot of people coming in and you’re not capable of serving them all if everything is happening on a very short period of time. But I think, you know, just reducing a little bit, just not making the exhibitors whole like, it’s there and you can go anytime you want because then it’s also very slow, right? I mean, the exhibitor hall just feels slow and it’s not very exciting and vibrant. And so I think that kind of set up makes for the exhibitor a whole to really feel more kind of like us a sandbox, a sandbox, right where you can you’re hearing about all of this exciting stuff on the conference and now, you know, go and find the vendors who are actually making all of this happen or they’re already embracing these technologies or they’re already able to help you bring that to your business. And so I think that is a better way of, you know. Creating the exhibit, our whole experience. So, yeah, I agree with you all that was just to say, I agree with what you were saying.

Grace: [00:09:54] No, but I like the way you explained it because that’s exactly what happens to all of us, right? Where they, you know, they don’t give you time to attend the sessions. You’re stuck at the booth and then, you know, there’s like a million people coming at once, you’re hoping or they don’t come at all, right? Because of the way it’s the the flow is set up for the people leaving the sessions where here the flow was set up for them to go directly into the exhibit hall as soon as the session was over and they wanted to. Yeah, and the really great part was I was able to attend sessions and I sat with people, you know, next to me and we would discuss a little bit about what the person was talking about, you know, like TCPA canned spam, act compliance, all those things that you know, we have to adhere to. It was great to sit in on the session and just listen to another expert, talk about it. But also, I was able to discuss it with the people that are sitting there and knowing that that they’re interested in that particular subject to guess what? They come to the booth because I’m sitting next to them, talking to them and creating a relationship, of course, in the session.

Liel: [00:10:58] Yeah, you’re basically networking as an attendee, not just as a vendor from your booth, and that obviously has an enormous amount of value. So Grace, all these sounds great. Now let’s talk a little bit about the content. What conferences, conversations, panels will you in? Were you able to participate in and what? What are your takes?

Grace: [00:11:20] So this conference was they went over a lot of the initiatives that are kind of going out right now, not necessarily the stir shaken stuff that we talk about, but they were

Liel: [00:11:30] Heavy because it’s too new or because,

Grace: [00:11:33] Yes. It really just got implemented by the FCC as a requirement, maybe like a month ago. Honestly, it’s been out for a year, but it hasn’t. They don’t have the capability. And it’s funny because we called like our team called the FCC directly to find out how we’re supposed to implement stir shaken for our clients, you know, with the letter of authorization and just making sure that we’re all compliant, right? And they said they don’t have a central agency that can help with the stir shaken initiative and that it has to do with the individual providers. So yes, that’s probably the main reason why they don’t have they didn’t have that at this particular conference, but they did talk about robo dialing and robo calling and all the bad words that we hear in the legal world and really in the communication world, right? Where the spam text messages and the robocalls that people get. Yeah, so they they covered that quite a bit and compliance

Liel: [00:12:33] Also known as the middle of the afternoon call saying that the warranty of your car is about to expire and you need to buy a new one, right?

Grace: [00:12:42] Oh, the worst is when you get those that they say you have a legal case with us and this is meant for you, you need to press one and click on this link so we can step in.

Liel: [00:12:52] And for businesses is like your Google listing, right? They call and they tell you that your Google listing is about to to to close expired fire. I mean, yeah, it’s it’s bad.

Grace: [00:13:04] It is bad. But and it’s gotten worse, right? With COVID, everything went remote. So yeah, how many how how much has the robo dial and spam text message increased on your phone? I mean, just review, right?

Liel: [00:13:17] Yeah, it’s got anybody. It’s got it’s been seasons that it’s been pretty bad. So. So what are they saying about all of these grades? What’s happening? So because people, people no longer have trust on their phones, the reality is that people now are very skeptical about answering calls from unknown numbers, not just from calls that are showing up on your phone as potential spam calls, but any call that it’s from an unknown number and which is not a great thing, particularly for industries like like mass torts lead generation, right? Because it it’s important to be able to call back leads that are submitting that are leaving us queries through landing pages and such like, what’s the solution to all of this?

Grace: [00:14:00] So, you know, we’ve gotten into pretty interesting conversations over the last few years, really, but it’s kind of culminated with this stir shaken thing, right? About local presence, right? A lot of people can call local presence when you call from an area code that is local to the individual. Now we are quite emphatic about local presence and not using it and not not

Liel: [00:14:26] Using or not.

Grace: [00:14:27] Not and often you know why. I’ll tell you exactly why. Two twofold. One, even just being in the legal field, local presence, unless you have a physical location in that city, technically speaking, it’s a very gray area. Ethically, it’s not correct truthfully, because what is the intent, the intent of using local presence is to make you pick up the phone to make you think that I’m calling you from a local number. So if the intent is to defraud? And this comes from, you know, just our personal ethical feelings about using these phone numbers and marketing, particularly for legal, but really for anybody. If the intent is to make them think something other than what it is that is ethically and morally incorrect. So that is the stance that we’ve always taken when it comes to local presence and we call it spoofing. We don’t call it local presence because that is what you’re doing. You’re you’re you’re putting a phone number that you don’t actually. While you may own it, you don’t have a location in that area code. So with by calling and using it in that fashion to us, it’s with the intent to defraud. So we consider it incorrect, not ethically, morally correct to do. Whereas a lot of marketing and lead generation companies feel like it’s a big deal. And it’s funny because we actually did a test where we one of our lead vendors, we told them we absolutely no, I don’t care what you do with others, but you cannot use local presence with us. Right. So turned off local presence. Guess what? The split a b test. No actual difference.

Liel: [00:16:10] And so rates were the same, yes.

Liel: [00:16:13] Wow.

Grace: [00:16:13] Yes.

Liel: [00:16:14] And what was the other number that we’re using was that…

Grace: [00:16:17] Local presence numbers?

Liel: [00:16:19] The local persons number, yes, and what was the other option? Was just what your your standard number?

Grace: [00:16:25] Their phone number.

Liel: [00:16:26] Or their phone number? 

Grace: [00:16:28] Theirs actually. 

Liel: [00:16:28] Where they were located. Ok. So that’s interesting. I would have expected that local numbers would also have higher cancer rates because of the same reason. But there you go. So yeah, and that’s what I’m seeing right at this point is like, you don’t answer a phone doesn’t matter whether it’s local or not, because you just don’t know the phone, the numbers. So I guess it’s kind of like drills down to whether you will answer the phone no matter where the area code comes from and or you just don’t answer phone calls that in that’s it. Now my follow-up question to that is then what is the so do you see now that companies and so are starting to build more on leveraging voicemails in order to really? Make that the the the messaging like you’re basically calling people just to be able to get to their voicemail.

Grace: [00:17:23] So yes and no, right, where people have kind of. They’re still going back to that voicemail drops where it doesn’t even ring, right? It just automatically drops in their voicemail. But I have found that that is also not necessarily a good standard to or practice to follow. Why? What I have found and what they did talk about this in their text messages. Text messages are still and probably the best way of informing them who it is that’s going to be calling them. So if you’re able to tell them your law firm is trying to contact you and this is the number, what do you do? You glance at your phone and you’re going to see that and you’re going to see your law firms name or whoever it is trying to contact you and then you see that call come through.

Liel: [00:18:10] Yeah. 

Grace: [00:18:11] Chances are you’ll answer it, because now you actually know who it is. So I have found that texting somebody before calling them and telling them to save that number to their phone so that they do know who it is has worked the best. And that, to me, has been the solution for this local presence and all these other problems that people are having when they see a call that they don’t recognize.

Liel: [00:18:33] So is that already what your guys are doing in your sequence before a phone call is being made, you actually send a text message to the lead, letting them know they will be receiving a call in X amount of time or within the next day or so. And this number is going to be late and is a number associated with the law firm. And as a matter of fact, that’s actually very clever Grace, because smart devices like both Android and iOS would actually display now whether they go ahead and save the number or not, and whether your telephone number is actually tagged with the name of your law firm. Now the device is going to recognize from your text message that that text message was associated from a contact that is giving you its name there. And then, you know, when you answer your phone, sometimes you see maybe and it shows the name of the potential contact. So that’s that’s probably what you may be able to achieve through this. That’s quite that’s very smart Grace.

Grace: [00:19:34] Yes, we are doing that. And that’s exactly why, because we have found that it’s even better than that. What’s happening? They’re not even waiting for us to call them. They just hit call back right on the text message. They literally click on the contact and say, “Oh my gosh, my lawyer is trying to call me.” So they call you back within seconds of that text hitting their phone. And so it’s actually increased the amount of inbound calls. So much so that we have to drip out the text messages before we contact them because they just flood inbound.

Liel: [00:20:10] And do you still do an opt out on those messages, like after you’re sending that first message, you’re sending an opt-out.

Grace: [00:20:16] It’s in in the first message,

Liel: [00:20:17] It’s in the first message.

Grace: [00:20:19] Yes, always. That’s a requirement. I mean, you don’t, regardless of whether they I mean, they always ask right for the most part, all of our leads and anybody we’re contacting is double opted in. There’s no single opt. No, we do double opt-in. That’s what the leads that we get if we get any or if we’re pulling them ourselves. It means that they organically came to our website and filled out the form and they asked for us to contact them. So there’s always that right? Just from the very beginning, it’s always clean when it comes in now, every message that goes out has an unsubscribe if it’s an email, has an opt-out, if it’s a text and if it’s a phone call. Of course, as soon as they say, do not call me whatever reason, it’s automatically opt-it out. And when they opt out of any of those three, they’re opt out of all of them. Because we don’t we don’t want any potential issues that, you know, a text would go out and they opt-out of email, you know, and they opt out of calls, whatever. We just blanket across the board. Opt them out. Everything.

Liel: [00:21:19] Grace, you brought up here a term that I don’t think we’ve used or we’ve mentioned ever in the podcast, which is very rare, but I think it’s the truth and that’s double opt in. Can you explain the audience was double opt-in means. 

Grace: [00:21:32] Yes. So because we are in the legal field, guys, there’s what you call opting in. Well, it’s not just legal rights marketing across the board. Yeah, for you to send solicitation.

Liel: [00:21:43] Sorry. Just just just to add to it and what you’re explaining now in the European Union, it’s mandatory.

Grace: [00:21:52] Yes. Gdpr compliance. Yep.

Grace: [00:21:55] correct. I’m very comfortable with that.

Liel: [00:21:57] Yeah, you are. So go ahead and explain. I’m sorry.

Grace: [00:22:00] No, no problem. So there has been a movement for many, many years to protect people’s data, right? So when somebody fills out a form and they say, yes, you are allowed to contact me for x y z, whether it’s the, you know, a legal form or if it’s, you know, you saying you can contact me for solar panels on my roof, whatever it is, right? There’s usually a checkbox at the bottom that says, I am consenting to you contacting me for this reason. Now there is that’s called a single opt-in. That is you checking a box saying Yes, I want you to contact me. A double opt in is when you say yes, you can contact me and then you get an email asking you to confirm email, text or, you know, call for you to confirm that you want to opt into this messaging service messaging from these people, whatever it is that you filled out, they’re confirming it. That is a double opt-in. Did that make sense?

Liel: [00:23:01] No, it does absolutely Grace. And let’s just differentiate right between when an Opt-In is required and when it is not required. Right? And you’ll and you’ll, you know, Grace, jump in here. Opt-in will be required when you’re intending to use those contact details for purposes outside, potentially of the original reason why the lead is reaching out to you in the first place. So if you’re going to marketing them outside of what they are initially reaching out to you for, then that that needs to be accepted if you’re going to reach out to them back because they’ve sent you an inquiry and they want more information about something and you’re strictly going to contact them about that, then you’re good, right? Because this is a personal communication that you are having with them of an individual to them, the moment that you start sending them more so promotional material that can be classified as unsolicited. Then the Opt-In is kind of like your  pre-approved authorization to send those communications, so when they say, I do not want to receive this, you can sell. Fair enough. We’re not going to be sending them to you anymore, but you did authorize us to send it to you at some point. So that’s kind of like basically just. Covering your ass.

Grace: [00:24:34] Exactly, CIA all across the board for everything, and that’s what the double opt-in is for us

Liel: [00:24:39] Because but but do you I mean, are we both on the same page about when do you do need a double opt-in and when you are? Ok. To contact a lead or a client or a contact without necessarily them having opinions because you can have clients that are not opt-in to your marketing. Correct.

Grace: [00:24:59] Correct.

Liel: [00:25:00] And that’s fine. Yes, that’s and that’s perfectly fine. Now, you know, what most businesses nowadays do is they add their opt-in somewhere in some of the transactions, documentations or whatever. And and and that’s how they get Opt-In. Now, double opt in is, as you said, it’s more transparent from the standpoint that you are letting them know, Hey, you know, you’re you’re you’re in our contact list and will be receiving messages, but you’re only going to receive them. If you actually confirm here through this email that you that you are OK with that. And and that’s really the best practice that’s considered the, you know. The gold rule when it comes to GPD are compliance,

Grace: [00:25:49] Right, and you know, in when so keeps referring to GDPR compliance and in the European Union, they require you to be not just any data that you’re collecting about somebody. You should be able to download it, send it to that person and delete it if they request it.

Liel: [00:26:07] Right.

Grace: [00:26:07] So that is, you know, super strict compliance over in the EU. And if you operate anything in the EU, you have to have that as part of your website. Part of any of the communications you send out. So any data that you collect on somebody that is the requirement over there, you know, I did import export law, so we had websites in different countries that we had to comply with it. So, you know, we don’t have that here. However, we do have obviously solicitation requirements, marketing requirements, not just in legal, really across any business, right? Yeah. When it comes to texting, emailing or any of that, you can’t solicit somebody unless they opt-in to a communication, at least single opt-in.

Liel: [00:26:50] Yeah. So was there any conversation going around, potentially any upcoming regulations on that? Things have there?

Grace: [00:27:00] So they did. They talked about the whole Robo dialing and they briefly mentioned, you know, the stir shaken initiative. Like in terms of that, because there’s a lot of small phone number providers that are going to get a little, I think, thrown by this right because a lot more phone numbers are coming up as unknown or likely spam. And it’s it’s since there’s not quite a central place for these people to go and get a certification authority from somewhere where it’s the FCC or something. It’s all up to the individual providers. So they they did talk very briefly about it kind of off of the seminar topics that were there because they were pre-established, right? And since their shaking is so kind of new, they did this about a year ago where they came up with the agenda topics and all of that. So they did focus on robocalling and TCP and compliance and texting and, you know, trying to be as compliant as possible. They even had a company that did reputation management and which, you know, you and I both know quite a bit about that because, you know, you have to branding and all of that.

Grace: [00:28:09] So they run your company through reputation, you know, making sure everything’s clean out there and that you don’t. You’re not seen as like a robo dialer because there were a lot of call center companies there. And so they, you know, for them, it’s a big deal. They need to know that they’re not not literally not coming up as spam, especially if they’re buying phone numbers for someone else, and they’re not the actual provider of the numbers as a call center. So it was a very interesting conversation when it came to all of the components that go into making the phone call. Having it actually answered because it comes up accidentally might come up as an unknown number or a blocked number or whatever, especially with the iOS  updates to Apple because Apple is now blocking. And if you have it active, of course, Apple can block calls that are unknown or with numbers that don’t, you know, aren’t tied to an actual company. Totally. Yeah, I agree. That was a big conversation, and

Liel: [00:29:11] Yeah, there is a lot to talk about iOS updates and how that can impact marketing as a whole. But I guess we’ll leave that for another one. So it’s time for our takeaways. Grace, send us off with some good three takeaways that you feel after attending the conference you are ready to implement for yourself and to share with the rest of the world.

Grace: [00:29:35] So after the conference, I think it really helped me kind of put together all anything having to do with communication in terms of compliance, right? Because they really hit that hard considering all the issues that we’ve all been having with COVID and these robocalls that were texts that we’re getting. So I’d say the first takeaway for me was just when you take a look at your current phone system, who actually provides your phone number and make sure that call yourself from your phone, from your business phone, from your company phone and check that the number comes up as a complaint number that you actually your law firm is showing up as that number on the caller ID, call your call an iOS phone, call an Android phone, make sure that it comes across on the phone the way it’s supposed to. I know that sounds so simple and tiny and dumb to some, but you’d be surprised how many times I call my own numbers at least once a week for all of the businesses that we have. Why? Because you never know. Sometimes a connection may have been lost. You don’t know exactly how it shows up. Luckily, we we basically migrated all of our numbers into teams. So for us, it’s very easy to see all of the information in one. But a lot of these older firms that have had these numbers forever don’t even know where their phone number resides. So I would say, call yourself, make sure that the phone number shows up the way you anticipated. Call your cell phone. Check it out. Call an iOS number. To me, that is the first take away. Check all your phone numbers that you have that are out there and make sure that they show up the way you think they should show up.

Liel: [00:31:18] Yeah, that’s actually a great point, Grace, very, very good one. What else do we have to do?

Grace: [00:31:25] I’d say number two would be try texting first. I think that that would help a lot of people. Instead of calling, leaving a voicemail or even doing voicemail drops, send them a text first. You’d be surprised at what the increase of the callbacks will be. It’s quite large, actually. I find it. Yeah, it’s been great.

Liel: [00:31:45] That’s actually a really good tip. Grace there? Yeah, do you? And just, you know, very briefly, I know this could be this could lead to a whole new conversation, but any advice on how they should do it, should they actually send these text messages from from from their phone? Or do these messages need to be sent out from a platform that, as you were mentioning, need to have an opt-out option

Grace: [00:32:08] To platform do not mess with. I mean, there’s tons of things out there. I mean, obviously, you guys know persist texting too, but there’s tons of things out there that if you don’t want to use persist, use something that is actually a system that saves it in your CRM or your case management software so that you can always refer back to that text message without having to dig through something and then hope that somebody responded the way they’re supposed to. And particularly because of opt-out, you guys are everyone. We’re in legal. You have to have your opt-out and you have to have that information on the message. So make sure that you use a system. Do not. And I know everybody wants to have it on their cell phone. You can. You can accomplish that by using a system. It can forward it right to your phone. And if you reply using that phone, you can have an app. You know, again, there’s there’s a million ways of doing this. If you need help, reach out to us at, you know, NANATO on or ask@incamera podcast.com Reach out to us

Liel: [00:33:09] Directly, guys. If you if you reach out to me and you’re asking me about how can I receive my business text messages in my cell phone, I think I’m going to have to send you to Grace. So definitely, definitely take yourself a shortcut. Reach out to Grace directly. But that’s actually a very good point. Grace? Yeah. So I think last one here and I’m going to dare here to take it away from you, but I think you would agree that is use Opt-In models when getting contact details in from whether it is our leads, clients and whatnot if you’re planning on marketing them. I think a great way to do that is also by reviewing your privacy policy on your landing pages. When four submissions are, there is a lot of ways that you can actually do it. But I think you know the expectation in moving forward, the trend that we’re seeing is that we’re going to probably be expected to be more transparent about it and stop limiting it to be small print somewhere hidden in a section of the page that nobody sees. So it seems like it’s coming. And if it’s not already here, probably it’s already here. So that’s going to be a takeaway. What do you think about that one?

Grace: [00:34:25] Off a million percent, right? I mean, for me, it’s always about being transparent. If you actually read the ABA handbook on marketing for the different states, right? I read the one for Florida because it has some of the most stringent laws, right? For PI attorneys. If you read it, they tell you the most important thing is to not defraud your client, right? And so the best way you can do that is by communicating to them in the fashion that they want you to communicate to them, but also making sure that you’re making sure that they know what you’re going to communicate to them. It’s about communication. So for them to know that there’s a giant box that says, I am consenting to communications from you as a law firm that they can check and they know they’re checking it. It’s not hidden and it’s not put dug into somewhere in the bottom where they “OK, you’re consenting automatically know.” Make it a check box. Make sure that these people are very clear on what you’re going to be communicating to them about and how because I want it, I want that for me. You know what I mean? So I do what I want for me, for the clients. And I think that that’s the most important thing is to treat the clients the way you want to be treated.

Liel: [00:35:35] That’s right, Grace. That’s a great and message for us to put an end to this episode, and we’ll be back next week. Live from PILMMA. That’s going to be fun. So safe travels Grace. And I’ll see you soon. Take care.

Grace: [00:35:52] You too.

Liel: [00:35:56] And if you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your coworkers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@in-camerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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