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S3 E47: Cyber Monday Mode


Cyber Monday
ICP Logo

S3 E47: Cyber Monday Mode




Cyber Monday

It’s Cyber Monday. We’re officially in the last stretch of the year. And as you start planning for the next year, today is an excellent opportunity to get bargains on software that can power your law firm to reach the next level and only pay for a fraction of the price.

This week’s conversation looks at what “the great resignation” represents for law firms needing to fill positions and what proactive steps you can take to keep your employment package relevant to your team members and attract new talent when you need it. No, this has nothing to do with higher wages, healthcare, or 401k.

Hello, Google Ad Performance Max campaigns! That’s a new and improved form of Local Ads campaign that isn’t to be confused with Local Service Ads, which could be the next best opportunity for your law firm to take advantage of. We know this is confusing stuff, so let’s get started right away by listening up and getting all of the information you need to start making decisions and establishing priorities for 2022.

Resources mentioned in our episode:

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

Enjoy the show? Please don’t forget to subscribe, tell your coworkers, and leave us a review!


Liel: [00:00:00] In September, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, four point four million workers left their jobs for the first time in history, continuing a string of months in twenty twenty one with new all time records for quit rates. I’m Liel Levy co-founder of Nanato Media and author of Beyond Se Habla Español How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market and This Is In-camera podcast, and we believe that listening to your employees needs and expectations is key to remaining competitive in the labor market. Welcome to in-camera podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations, Grace, welcome back. How are you today?

Grace: [00:01:02] Good. How are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:04] Doing great Grace can’t complain. We’re recording this episode, you know, on Wednesday, the 24th. A few hours before everything shuts down and we move into holiday mode, right?

Grace: [00:01:16] Definitely.

Liel: [00:01:17] It’s always fun. It is always fun. And what’s even funnier is that actually the episode is going to be published the week after Thanksgiving. So on Monday, after Thanksgiving, so on Cyber Monday. So for those of you, don’t forget that they are a killer sales today, particularly when it comes down to buying software and SaaS services. Grace, not kidding. Like, this is the day when you want to sign up and get yearly memberships for all types of software that you use for your organization. So whether that is Canva Monday, right? A whole bunch of different SaaS platforms have really good bargains going on during Cyber Monday. So definitely if you’re currently on a monthly subscription of one of these tools that you are using really regularly and you don’t see yourself leaving over the next year, then this is a great opportunity to potentially upgrade to a yearly membership and pay maybe up to 50 60, sometimes even 70 percent of it’s ridiculous. So, yeah, without a side Grace, I think the point that we were trying to make here is that we are officially back in holiday mode.

Grace: [00:02:34] That’s right. And it’s end of year everyone, you know, even on the news, right? They’ve been talking about how TSA is going to be overloaded and they’re just not going to be enough people to even process the amount of people that are trying to travel during the holidays for the first time in a long time.

Liel: [00:02:49] So I hear, yeah, I been following the news a little bit and it seems like, yeah, the numbers of traveling are pretty much back to where they were in 2019. So, you know, it’s I guess from one standpoint great that to have that sense of normalcy back in our lives up to a certain extent. But I think, you know, it’s just prudent to have some level of awareness that we’re still in a delicate spot things things haven’t completely vanished or still a virus. There’s still an economy that it’s some days great. Some days it seems a little bit fragile. So there are several things to keep in mind. And I think one of the things that you were bringing up right before we jump into the conversation is the labor market phrase.

Grace: [00:03:35] Exactly. Yeah. I mean, with the holidays, you know, my my mom actually works in retail, and I started to tell you before we came on and she’s having some serious issues. And it’s not just her, you know, obviously, we talk about legal here, but this is seems to be a labor issue in general, not just, you know, retail or just legal or just anybody. It really seems to be a systemic issue across the board for just about everybody where even in the news, as I said yesterday, I saw where they were incentivizing people to get hired or to work for them by giving them a daily paycheck. Well, have you heard that? Did you hear that?

Liel: [00:04:15] Oh, that sounds like an uber sort of thing, right? Where are you?

Grace: [00:04:20] It was a regular company like a, you know, like a regular retail company. Let’s say, you know, McDonald’s, I’m just going to pick a name out of a hat. It wasn’t McDonald’s, but let’s pick them right? They were saying that every single day that you work, they will pay you every day. And that’s how they were trying to incentivize besides service and whatever.

Liel: [00:04:37] Yeah. So a few things there A) Why not?. We are. We’re always talking here about how you need to meet your audience where they are and adapt to their terms and be available to them in the way that they want you to be available to them. So a lot of that can actually apply to how you as an employer can attract talent, right? And if one of the things that talent is looking right now or the type of ideal team member for your organization is looking alike right now is for an experience that looks and feels a little bit more of that of a freelancer. But inside of a bigger organization, right? And also one of the perks of the freelancer is that they actually get paid either by the hour. By the end of the day, you know, they have like their own little terms there that they set for how they work, how they collaborate. And so if you can offer an experience that seems and feels like that that has remote working that where they can get paid with more frequency than just once a month or biweekly or whatever it is that your organization is currently doing, then that’s a great thing, right? That’s really using your your position yourself a little bit more competitively. And you know, it’s also maybe a good incentive to ensure that people are actually showing up to work because they know it’s more tangible. I work, I get paid, I work, I get paid. So, you know, I can see the the reasoning behind it. What do you think?

Grace: [00:06:09] Definitely, I mean. Exactly like you said, I couldn’t have put it better in terms of be where your audience is and your employees are also your audience when you’re attempting to hire them. Right? I mean, in this market, it’s not the, you know, if you post it, they will apply. No, it’s the standard job. Boards are not dead, but they are definitely completely changed in the way we communicate with employers potential employees.

Liel: [00:06:36] Yeah. I mean, without saying it is an accounting nightmare. So you definitely need to have some good accounting systems automated up to a certain extent so that you can easily process timesheets in a way that is efficient, controlled and you know, you can deliver on your promise of getting paychecks or deposits by the end of the working day. But I think it’s not impossible. And again, if that’s going to get you the talent that you want and you need to operate and to stay above your competition. Worth exploring, but I guess what you’re referring to here, you know, it’s a term it’s been named already. You know, marketing is everywhere, right? So they’re calling it the great resignation, right? So big gap in the labour market. People are not as enthusiastic about working. Before and some industries are getting hit more than others, but I think it’s also important to mention that a lot of companies. They’re certainly taking their how they call it, the Olympic round across LinkedIn to say that they are not feeling it, that they have such a great culture in their workplace that they’re, you know, being hiring more than ever. They’ve been able to retain all of their talent and so forth and so on. And whether they should be bragging about it or not. It’s, you know, proud they’re proud about what they’ve done and how they’ve positioned themselves in in the place that they are. But the bottom line is that is a fact, right? I mean, this is really the time where, where, where it’s Judgment Day are you? Are you going to survive? Have you ever actually given enough reasons and incentives to your team to want to want to stay with you, but not just that to be able to also attract new talent? And I think, you know, there is no just one method to be safe and secure, even even when you when you’re doing the right things, it is still hard oftentimes to find the right, the right person to come to work for you.

Liel: [00:08:51] Oftentimes also because of the of the of the terms, right? Because you need certain things. There is obviously the are you going to be working remote? Are you going to be working in office? It’s going to be a hybrid. Those are still things that are creating some sort of friction. And it’s and it’s going back. It’s going back to what you’ve said about the the the payroll thing that you can get paid every single day you need to understand. I mean. Can you actually meet your talent on their terms and say, OK, they the type of employee I want, leans towards remote working? Can I leave up with that? And if you can, then you know, in this market, it’s it’s not. It’s no longer a secret that it’s a competitive advantage. So yeah, I’ll just leave it there and let you go and tell me what you think about all of this.

Grace: [00:09:50] Yeah, no. I mean, look, you know anybody that says that they’re not having any problems, hiring isn’t hiring, you know, because everybody has problems hiring. No, what right? I mean, it’s just it’s just what it is. It’s, you know, there’s assessments in this and that an applicant tracking and I mean, there’s a lot that goes into talent acquisition and it’s a process and the bigger the company you are and the more people you have. And sometimes even the smaller you are, sometimes the harder it is to manage because you may not have operational efficiencies in place for talent management, talent acquisition and paying the talent in the in the most efficient way and tracking their time if they’re remote, right? So, yeah, no, I agree with you on all your points specifically on. The fact that you need to have all of this in place, if you’re going to put out a program right where it says, I can do this for you, if you come work for me, you need to meet it and potentially exceed it. I look at it just the same as if you were, you have a client, right? If you have a client, you want to do everything in your power to keep your client happy, and that includes communication. That includes giving them what they ask for, whatever it needs, right? And that’s the same with your employees employees. There’s not a whole lot, unfortunately, and it’s it’s just a it seems to be more of a little systemic thing, potentially. But there’s not a lot of loyalty in the typical terms where somebody will stay. They call it loyalty, but it’s more of a job and positioning issue. But they call it loyalty. And that is, people don’t stay in business or with one company for 20 years anymore. It’s not like it, you said.

Liel: [00:11:32] That’s true.

Grace: [00:11:33] Right? And you know, they want to refer to it as loyalty for the business and vice versa loyalty from the business to the to your employee. But it’s not like that. It’s it’s what can you provide as the employee and as an employer to each other for however long you can, you know, so you need to have exit strategies in place for your business? You should have off boarding strategy for your employees, right?

Liel: [00:12:02] And clients and clients.

Grace: [00:12:04] Exactly. So it’s it’s the same when you have employees, you need an onboarding program, you need employment packaging. You need you need all of the same things that you do when you hire. When a client hires you, when you hire somebody, you’ve got to do the same thing. You’ve got to give them the package, you’ve got to talk to them, you’ve got to communicate and they need to know that they are valued as an individual employee as part of your team.

Liel: [00:12:28] Obviously, those perks, if you may. Right. What are you doing in order to provide them with a great working experience? Have a lot to do. A lot of that starts with things like benefits. Right. But I think also, particularly when we’re looking at younger talent, I think one of the things that they’re really interested in is experiences, right? I think as a whole as a society, we’re shifting away from from from more material centered approach towards an experiential one. And I think one of the greatest things that you can offer as an organization is growth opportunities, is learning and development and also opportunity to get them exposure to things that matter to them. And how do you know what matters to them? Well, obviously you get an idea by the profile that you’re looking for, so you already know someone who would be the right fit for a particular position would likely have certain interests. And so you can already identify some opportunities. But you know, people want to travel. People want to attend seminars, conferences. They want to know that they’re not just there to do one job all the time. They want to be able to also have an input, have a say and obviously have an opportunity to to to grow your knowledge. And most importantly, those experiences that they’re getting to be able to then use them back in their in their job because there is no point in training someone into doing things and then not allowing them to actually apply, apply those. But. It’s a good reminder that as we’re heading towards the end of the year, it’s around the time that some people are thinking of what we’re going to be doing next year. A lot of people are not leaving companies right now because of the same reason. The end of the year tends to be a time that people employees tend to linger for bonuses, for vacations, for whatever it is that it’s already there for them waiting for them. But come January, it’s going to be very interesting to see how things evolve. And so, you know, you’re ready and have a strategy. Any final thoughts on these Grace?

Grace: [00:14:55] No, not really. I mean. Well, yes, I guess so. I always have final thoughts, right? That’s right. When when hiring, you know, you really have to have a strategy, just like with anything else, you need to have a system in place again, just like with anything else. So, you know my thoughts when it comes to hiring. I used to do human resources for retail, which is fairly structured. Yeah. And actually, it was specifically for target use, human resources for target human resources manager. So everything they did, the training programs, everything was in a process in a strategy. It had a, you know, a portal, all kinds of things. And it was very nicely packaged in a bow, regardless of whether you’re a one or a 10 person or a hundred person, company or firm. You need to have the same thing in place if you want to have the right talent that fits your culture.

Liel: [00:15:48] As we were saying, it’s not, you know, in the hospitality industry in particularly the Ritz-Carlton refers to it as you have your your guests and your internal guests, right? Your guests are those who come, they’re paying customers, and it’s very evident to everyone who they are. The internal guests are your colleagues are people from the organization, are the employees are the assets that make everything happen from that principle, understand that they also need to be have their own experience. They also need to have a sense of purpose and feel valued and enjoy and want to be there because, as they say, happy employees, happy customers, right?

Grace: [00:16:33] Yeah, definitely. And you have more productive employees that way as well.

Liel: [00:16:37] Yeah, that’s absolutely right. Grace now, Grace. I want us to shift gears a little bit here because I also want us to have a very, very quick conversation into a new type of ad format or a campaign that has been released by Google. It was announced over a year ago, right? You know how everything goes with Google. They announce something 18 months ahead of time, and then they. Wait about six months, and then they start releasing it in small batches of beta testing and then they finally open it for everyone, but it’s still not available for everyone. They start market by market, slowly by slowly but surely up until the point that I don’t know, five to six months after the official release, it’s now widely available. So now we have a new type of campaign that it’s called Performance Max, and we are at the stage where it’s starting to roll out into several markets. Now what is Performance Max? Well, it’s a new type of campaign that Google designed in order to make it easy for advertisers to be visible everywhere across the Google. Ecosystem of platforms, so that could be. Discover, search, YouTube, display, network map, so very robust and you’re probably already seeing or thinking, huh, that sounds like what? Local ads campaign used to be because. There is a lot of similarity there, right? It’s a campaign that basically allows you to be present everywhere, run ads everywhere and have visibility everywhere. Now what’s unique about our performance max? I think it’s a little bit the fact that you can actually create or provide Google with different information that will allow them to then create very, a very diverse set of dynamic ads that has obviously an increased reach, then potentially what local ads had.

Liel: [00:18:47] This seems to be more robust, particularly when I’m looking at law firms. Grace was really stood out for me is that in some markets, I was in Atlanta earlier this month and I noticed already there that when you’re searching, for instance, personal injury lawyer on Google Search now the search at section is starting to show its performance max campaigns and in between the search ads. Ok, in between the search ads, all from the sudden they insert one or two Google My business listings. As ads and those are the performance Max insertions into the search results page. So I know this sounds very confusing because now you have the local services sites on the top and we know how those look right. Little picture start, name of the business and a phone number so you can click to call now. Then you have the search ads, which the search that up until now were very, very consistent. It’s just text. And of course, some of them are showing now the the image extension. But now, with the performance max ads, you’re also going to be seeing sometimes a Google my business listing in between the search ads.

Liel: [00:20:12] And obviously, this is going to be very interesting to see how it turns out. Will users prefer to click on a Google my business listing, which by the way, when you click on it, it it takes you to the Google my business profile of the of the business, and then you still need to convert. You still need to convert. It’s not. It’s not ads in local service ads that until you don’t call, you’re not actually consider it a lead here. You know, you’re basically already interacting with the ad now. The thing here about these ads, the performance Mack’s campaign is that they’re easy to set up, very easy. So I actually have here and I’m going to share my screen with you, Grace here so you can see what is it that I’m looking at? It’s actually very, very easy to set up. You can see here that basically you can set up two things you can either decide where here I am. Ok? And basically, you can set up the campaign to achieve two things either maximize conversions or a target cost per acquisition. So how much are you willing to spend per an actual converted lead? Or you can just tell Google, here is my budget. You get me as many conversions as you can with this, right? So again, it’s not very granular. You can already see there the difference between a normal search campaign or a normal display or Google Ads campaign where you really have more granular control about the strategy.

Liel: [00:21:48] Here, it basically breaks down into two different goals you go and set up a budget and let it run from there. You can then set up a location. You can set up a language. Ok? You can obviously set up the schedule when you want it to be available. And then there’s these fun things. This is where I’m saying that this is a more capable version of what local ads are ads where here you can actually tell Google, OK, send everyone to this particular landing page, or you can let Google decide from your website which one is going to be the most relevant page to send users when they actually interact with some of your ads. Again, in some cases, the ad is going to be the Google My business listing, so there is a caveat there right now. The other thing here to keep in mind. Is, as I’ve said, Google gives you a lot of opportunity for you to add images, logos, videos, write different headlines for your ad, right? And then what Google does is does it mixes and matches things around so that it finds some combinations that work, it tests them out and then obviously keeps on showing more those ads and those configurations that are showing that are performing the best. And the nice thing here is that the placement is taken care of for you. Google decides when is it going to, you know, when it’s showing you on display, when it’s showing you on YouTube, when it’s showing you on the search network? So it pretty much does most of the work for you.

Liel: [00:23:22] Then the other thing that I think is quite cool is that it allows you to add a few other extensions to the campaign, which is pretty nice. Like, for instance, you can have a lead form extension that is generated for particular type of placements. So it’s, you know, it can be very robust depending the objectives that you have or the goals that you set yourself for for the campaign. But the bottom line here is that we don’t know right now whether this campaign is really going to stand a chance to deliver quality compared to other Google ad campaigns, right? And just like when local service ads came out, I definitely think this is the type of strategy. This is the type of campaign that you want to test out now, and you then also want to see how it evolves over time, how it performs over time because as it gets more normalized, there’s more competition comes to the place, right? Obviously, the performance is going to change. So far, the numbers of the industries that have tested this out, they do see they do see an overall increase number of conversions and a slight drop in cost per acquisition. Now the quality of those leads, though, is yet to be defined, and particularly when it comes down to the legal industry.

Liel: [00:24:49] It’s going to be very interesting to see if actually this leads that come out of these campaigns have quality. Why? Because of the same reason that Google is for the most of it, deciding what and when to show your ads. So what type of ad and when? So you not you do not have as much control as you would have, for instance, on a search campaign where you can really target keywords, allocate different value to each one of the keywords that you’re targeting and set up budgets based on that. Here, you’re certainly building more on Google’s automation features. And again, sometimes it can work very well. Sometimes it can’t, and sometimes it will start working very well. And then it would stop generating results after a period of time. So I would just say, keep your eyes open. At this point, it’s not available in all markets. Not all accounts have access to this. So, you know, just be on alert and when it becomes available to you, just like we’ve said, when local ads came out, definitely test them out. Definitely test them out. And the other thing here is that while right now we still have localized campaigns and we have these Max Performance Max campaign available, eventually local ads are going to stop existing and they’re going to just be covered by Performance Max. And you can understand why, because it’s basically the same thing just with more enhancements.

Grace: [00:26:21] That’s what I was going to ask you. I was going to say, what’s the plan for the LSA stuff if this is well,

Liel: [00:26:27] Yeah, Ellison is going to say local service that doesn’t seem to show any signs of leaving, but remember that on top of local service ads, we have the local ads campaign, which is this other type of campaign where Google is also showing your ads in different placements across display, across Maps, across search and YouTube. And so even though in that campaign, you’re not just limited liking the local service ads to the search network, but obviously it’s a different type of strategy and it’s not like, Oh, I’ll do this over the other. Again, you need to diversify, you need to test, you need to see what works with you. It may be very well the case that you want to be running all of them because it makes sense for you and because you’re getting good cost per acquisition or conversion. And and that’s totally fine. That’s totally fine. Obviously, you need to know what’s your budget and where you can get the most out of it and maxed that out. And then based on that, start diversifying your efforts so you can be relevant in other touchpoints of the user journey. So Grace. I just wanted to share that. I’ll definitely there’s some very cool article here from search engine land, where they explained a lot of what I’ve just went through here. And so that will be in the episode notes and ask your Google account manager about these ads and whether they are already available in your account so you can discuss with them if it’s a good opportunity for you to test them out. Grace. It’s the end of our conversation. That means it’s time for

Grace: [00:28:07] Sadly what takeaways? That’s right. Take away time.

Liel: [00:28:12] Let’s take away then.

Grace: [00:28:14] All right. So first, take away right to me. It has to do with hiring, right? And that is go into it just like you do with everything else. You do a strategy, a plan and act on it because your internal your employees are your internal clients, so you need to address them and address hiring just like you would anything else in your business that is a vital part of your business, which is your employees are the lifeblood and they are what makes things happen. So make sure you go it and you deal with it and you go into it just like you would anything else in your business.

Liel: [00:28:50] Great. Take away, Grace. I’m going to make my second one about make sure that you are providing great tools and resources to your employees to make their life easy and so that they can be super, super productive. And with that being said, I do want to once again point out there is a real opportunity here to get into terrific platforms at a fraction of the cost during the period in between Thanksgiving and Cyber Monday. A lot of companies and it’s really crazy, but but but it’s the fact they really dropped their sign up prices to a fraction of what the yearly cost could be. And you could certainly if you’ve already identified a platform that you like, that you work, that you’ve been using and you’ve been on a monthly membership, this could be a great opportunity for you to upgrade to early memberships and really make a killing on a savings. So definitely don’t underestimate the amount of offers that exist. Also on business software during the Black Friday slash Cyber Monday period. Because it’s significant, a lot of people just think of retail and personal shopping and that sort of thing. No, there is a lot of deals that are actually available still today, the day the episode comes out. So get on that. One last take away, Grace.

Grace: [00:30:17] So I do want to add just a small thing to your second takeaway about additional things. We actually we buy and we have multi subscription license to Udemy for continuing education of our employees as they would like to see it right. So there’s, you know, as an example, we have a couple, we have the software side, right? So they continue their always learning more development skills. And then we also on the marketing side, we have a Udemy subscription for anything that they want to learn, marketing related, because that’s always changing, right? So I just wanted to mention, to your point, what you’re saying is 100 percent true. I mean, I’ve had people come on just because we offer that as an additional bonus, I’m I love learning new things. You know how what a nerd I am. So when it comes to getting my hands on new pieces of software and learning more code or more, whatever it is and whatever field I want, that’s why we did it. And so I didn’t realize what a what a boon that is for other people, but it really, really is. So to your point, we did purchase a subscription at like a rock bottom price because of the end of the year and all of that. So yes, we did that. So the the last takeaway moving away from hiring is this performance max always diversify, right? I think that when you’re running ads and you’re checking all these new things out, you should try them and you should test them. And you should definitely diversify your different strategies in your advertising because you can’t put all your eggs in one basket. It never works.

Liel: [00:31:56] Yeah, absolutely, as I’ve said, I think performance, particularly because of the placement where they are, the way they at looks like for law firms can be a really interesting opportunity when it comes down to the way they they they are placing them in the search results page. And definitely the costs there are not as expensive as a traditional search that would be. And that is why before this gets either saturated and the impressions drop significantly or it becomes super expensive. I definitely think that when this is available or hitting your market, you definitely want to, you know, be amongst the first ones to launch this because it could be very beneficial.

Grace: [00:32:41] I always like to be first to market Liel.

Liel: [00:32:43] Well, you want to try right and listen. Sometimes we were talking a lot about great benefits and sometimes it creates a lot of pains. But at the end of the day, there’s a lot of value in that. And I think the other thing that’s super important Grace is remembering that not because you had a great experience on a particular campaign at launch. It means that it will stay like that forever. You need to you need to understand how things and anticipate that that certain certain things are just going to change and evolve different into a different performance over over a period of time, just like we saw with local service sites, which at this point it is very clear for most people using them, particularly those in competitive markets, that it’s yeah, it’s a good thing to have there, but you cannot count on that as your sole or only strategy. Grace, thanks so much for another great conversation, and we will be back next week with something else to talk about.

Grace: [00:33:43] That’s right. Another topic.

Liel: [00:33:45] All right. All right. Take care Grace. Have a nice day. You, too. Bye. And if you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your coworkers. Leave us a review and send us your questions at: ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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