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S2 E43: Just Can’t Get Enough Legal Trends


ICP Logo

S2 E43: Just Can’t Get Enough Legal Trends





It seems that here at In Camera Podcast, we just can’t get enough of talking about what the 2021 legal marketing scope will look like. And while some trends seem to be consistent and indisputable across different prediction lists, some others are debatable at best, and irrelevant at worst.

This week we go over the 9 Legal Marketing Trends For Law Firms in 2021 according to Attorney At Law Magazine, who took it upon themselves to compile the ideas of attorneys and marketing professionals alike.

Spoiler alert, content makes more than one appearance in the list, but some other concepts such as low bono and PFP ( pay for performance) make a not-so-surprising appearance. Some of the trends discussed carry many potential and are worthy of consideration and implementation; others not so much.

Send us your questions at ask@incamerapodcast.com

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Liel: [00:00:00] Pfp, PPL, Low Bono, Google guaranteed, content. Are all part of the legal marketing trends that we will be hearing next year, but which ones will last and which ones will fade as fast as they appeared? I’m Liel Levy, co-founder of Nanato Media and this is Incamera podcast, where one thing we know for sure, good content isn’t going anywhere.

Liel: [00:00:55] Welcome to our podcast, Private Legal Marketing Conversations. Grace, how are you today?

Grace: [00:01:01] Good, how are you, Liel?

Liel: [00:01:02] I’m doing great, Grace. Thank you very much for asking. It’s always nice to be here with you getting ready for another conversation, right?

Grace: [00:01:11] Yes.

Liel: [00:01:12] That’s very kind of you to say. If you would have said no, Grace, that would have been very rude. So I appreciate your kindness. But Grace, how many weeks we have before the end of the year? Nothing, two three.

Grace: [00:01:27] Like three, I think. Right?

Liel: [00:01:28] Yeah. It’s hard to believe that we were putting 2020 behind us. It seems like it lasted an eternity, but it’s coming to an end. And Grace, you know, we cannot stop talking about the trends in the future and what’s going to happen in 2021. And just like we’ve been doing for the past few weeks this week, we also have another great article that was published on attorney at Law magazine online. About the nine legal marketing transfer law firms in t2021 Grace.

Grace: [00:02:01]  Yep, definitely like this one. It’s interesting, slightly different than the other ones we looked at.

Liel: [00:02:06] Oh yeah. They’re all so disclaimer here. For those of you who said, OK, I think I’ve already heard that episode before. No, You have and this is a new one. And the point here is that in every single one of these articles, yes, there are some recurring topics and ideas. Right.

Liel: [00:02:24] But we tend to always bring up different angles to those things. Right. Because you cannot talk about content enough. That’s kind of like a short warning content, bullet points coming our way.

Liel: [00:02:40] But there’s also some other points, right, and points that we haven’t yet talked about in that they are very here and a very present, Grace. And so with that being said, we’re going to get started. And we’re also going to mention that if you’d like to actually have a look at the article, we’re going to link to it in the episode notes. Are you ready for us to start with point number one?

Grace: [00:03:03] Yes, let’s get it going.

Liel: [00:03:05] All right, Grace.

Liel: [00:03:06] So this one and particularly coming from the agency world, this is a very controversial one. And it’s called Pay for performance advertising, Grace, pay for performance, advertising rates. We all know paper click. Right. And so let’s focus here, particularly on the Google search network, because that’s really where pay per click has its significance. That’s where it clicks can become expensive. That’s where you really can blow up through a ton of money without seeing any results. So the offer of pay for performance is very tempting. And so what are we seeing, Grace, is that there are agencies now and freelancers that are offering the service of, well, you actually pay for actual converted leads, convert it in the sense that leads that you can move forward. Now, Grace, while the idea seems very, very, very, very ground breaking, the reality is that this business model has been around forever. And correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this the same as buying retainers?

Grace: [00:04:14] No, it’s not. It’s close, but it’s not because the one would be considered, at least in my opinion. And tell me, because I know you’re on the digital marketing side and agency side, where it be pay for performance is me is kind of paying for qualified leads. That’s the way I look at pay for performance.

Liel: [00:04:33] That’s correct, Grace. Absolutely. You’re right.

Liel: [00:04:37] I didn’t mean to interrupt you. No, no, that’s OK. I just wanted to reaffirm right there on the spot with you.

Liel: [00:04:43] So I think that if you’re actually going to measure it just by qualified lead, then it’s misleading because then what is a qualified lead? What what are the parameters? Because in my experience, working with a law firm, with law firms, the only qualified lead term that exists is the client gets signed. Right. That’s the ultimate qualifier. Now, if you’re telling me that a qualified lawyer is someone who’s been on the phone with your agent for three minutes and that is what qualifies them, then you’re buying something else. You’re buying a conversation. That’s what you were buying. Not a conversion, an actual conversation. Right. And so I think it misses the point. Like, you’re not necessarily getting a great deal here if what you’re actually getting is a metric that doesn’t necessarily translate into new business for your law firm. And so while I think that the model, it’s promising and while I think that there may be some people that are offering value to this and there is a lot of scammers that they may be jumping through this new term to try to sell marketing services, I personally think that there is a big element that most of these services leave out, which is your brand-building efforts, because most of these services operate in a way or another likely generation companies, and they’re basically running their campaigns, disregarding as to whether your market you’re actually paying them for leads or not.

Liel: [00:06:22] Right. And they’re not actually using your brand name in any way to actually run these campaigns. And if they do, it’s probably going to be on a super cookie-cutter strategy and they’re going to say they’re going to drop your name like your law firm name on a landing page. That other than that, just a two-word line that has your name and last name doesn’t have anything else that actually is reflective of your law firm, your brand, your team, anything else. So I personally think that this is a way of diversifying, if you may. Right. I think particularly as we are in the era of the local service ads with Google, it’s very tempting to want to try and test this out. I still believe that to have full control over your strategy, you need to actually really own it. I don’t know. Grace, what do you think?

Grace: [00:07:19] No, I agree with you completely. Actually, I kind of ran across this the other day when I was thinking about getting in some cases, for a really hard to find Tort as a matter of fact. And, you know, I was thinking about the strategy that I would have to kind of implement because that particular Tort is in. People don’t seem to know about it. Right. And so to build up the brand awareness and the awareness of the drug, it’s not even a brand excuse me, the awareness of that particular tort. The problem with it, why would I do that with an agency or without branding it for the law firm specifically? It doesn’t make sense for me to do that. Right, because I feel like other people would benefit, just like you said, the other agencies would benefit from selling this to whomever they want. But it’s not doing anything for your law firm, for your brand specifically. So I feel the same way that you’re saying if you want to try it, I think you can include it as part of a part of your strategy as a new thing that you’re trying out. But you don’t ever put all your eggs in the same basket, especially if it’s not building up your brand.

Liel: [00:08:28] Grace, you know what? I’ll be honest with you. Like, I see these agencies left, right, and center all the time on Facebook. Like, again, this is the one thousand dollars I pay you if I don’t get you 10 life transfers and so forth and so on. And then you start reading through the comments of those strategies and it’s there like, I paid this guy seven thousand dollars. I didn’t generate one single lead. Like it’s do your homework. Right. Do your homework. And the reality is that marketing is not easy. If it was easy to generate leads and cases, Law Firms would be opening new offices every single month, every single month of the year. So the bottom line is that building a brand takes work, landing good cases takes work, but it’s worth it. So trying to take shortcuts with what seemed to be solutions in digital marketing particularly may not necessarily yield the results that you hope.

Liel: [00:09:27] So, Grace, I think enough talking about pay for performance. How about if we move to the next one?

Grace: [00:09:34] So this is kind of I feel like it goes back to what you and I keep talking about, right? Content, right, but this one is kind of going for an angle that you and I, again, talk about a lot, which is community awareness.

Grace: [00:09:50] And I feel like when it comes to community awareness and what they’re saying in this particular section of the article is create community awareness with educational content. I’m not sure I agree 100 percent exactly how they said it because you and I have said it a few times where you don’t create this cookie-cutter content. And that includes the same old thing everybody has about uninsured motorist coverage. I can download an e-book from anybody’s website, any love from anywhere. I am sorry, but I don’t really care. I already know enough about it or I can even go to an insurance company and get the same information. Probably. So for me, creating community awareness with educational content means creating something that helps with your story, with your brand, and reaching out to the community to give them something that’s actual value. And the only way to do that is to know your community and to know your avatar, your people, your personas, right?

Liel: [00:10:46] Yeah. And I think Grace particularly 2021, right. As we’re going to have to put back and balance our new siloed digital bubble in which we believed most of 2020 and going back to in-person interactions, to being able to participate in-person at community events, to be present at places where you could actually do work that will impact and benefit those around you. And so I agree with what you’re saying, that it really find a way to. Merge your community outreach with your content strategy, do things with a purpose, the same thing as don’t just show up there and hand over a check for ten thousand dollars and just don’t do anything about it. Other than the photo and the press release. Put more effort into the whole cause. The purpose, the reason, what made you want to decide partner up with whoever is that you’re going to be supporting. And I think that’s really important, really valuable. And I agree that’s basically also something that counts as valuable and interesting content not just for the website, but for social media as well. Super important. I can’t stress enough Grace.

Liel: [00:12:17]  And exactly what you said. Right. Social media is part of community awareness. So social media is community, is about engagement, is about creating content for your people. And they go to Facebook, they go to Twitter, they go to those places because they’re looking for a snippet or something that will help them specifically, not for you to tout about your law firm necessarily. They want information, they want educational content and they want social content that’s going to help them kind of figure out whatever’s next for them. I mean, that can be something as simple as like if you figure it out, a protocol for covid and for how when they reopen your office, what that protocol is, if you want to share that with the community, that’s something you should share with your community because you guys are doing something extra.

Grace: [00:13:06] You know, you have hand sanitizer stations at every door. I mean, things like that that people want to know. We want to know the story. We want to know what’s going on. And you can do that by creating community awareness, educational content, with community awareness, with your educational content. And again, as Liel said, very, very clearly, and this is super important, don’t just throw it against the wall and hope it sticks. It needs to be a part of your story and part of your overall strategy.

Liel: [00:13:33] Yeah, Grace. So let’s move on to the next one, right, which I think it’s going to be one of the hottest topics in 2020 where it’s going to carry forward to 2021. And that’s Google Screened and the guaranteed program ride, which has been promised tools pretty much since the last eight months. But we’re yet to see it, at least rollout for the legal industry. So Google Screened, Grace, we already know it all too well. It’s basically a local service ads, right. And for those who are still catching up on what local service ads are, these are the ads where you actually let Google run a background check on you, on your law firm through a partner organization called Pinkerton. And then they basically ask you, OK, so what practice areas do you want us to promote your law firm for?

Liel: [00:14:31] So you tell them personal injury, immigration, workers compensation, whatever it is, and then Google will decide basically when they’ll show up your ad, which basically looks like a small little Google my business listing at a very top of the screen, shows your reviews, shows your name. And it’s going back to the pay per performance concept. You only pay for the actual phone call or the message. You don’t pay for the click. So while the user is researching and clicking and seeing a little bit more of the details, when your law firm, which is extremely basic, right, you’re taken to a landing page where there some additional business details, but it’s even more basic than a Google my business listing.

Liel: [00:15:20] And then if the user still feels that you’re the right fit, they’ll call they’ll send a message that at that point you pay. And I think a lot of people are still mistaking the fact that. But what happens if I don’t sign the lead? Well, you’re not taking the lead. You’re still paying for it. Now, Grace, I don’t want to focus on, LSA ads too much, because that’s not what this point is about. Right. I think LSAs have been somewhat controversial because in some markets, they’re working in some markets, they’re just a source of a lot of spam. They’re a source for calls that don’t fall under the type of practice area that the law firm is intending to generate clients for through those ads. So that’s a completely different conversation altogether. But the actual screened program may very well evolve as well into an opportunity for law firms to also advertise specifically on the local pack. So sort of like kind of like by themselves, more credibility with Google, by actually having these screened badges showing up on their Google my business listing. And that will obviously will make them stand out against those businesses that don’t have it. And it’s going to be more geared towards law firms that may not want to necessarily do Google ads or LSA, but are willing to pay Google fifty dollars a month, which is what it’s going to cost to carry this batch of Google screened that will potentially give them a little bit more visibility against those who don’t have it.

Liel: [00:16:59] Now, Grace, if you ask me, every single law firm is going to have it. Every single law firm is going to have it. And is just you know, there are some markets like Google, Houston, and you check how many law firms already have the screened and are showing ads on LSA, for, say, personal injury. The list is endless, endless, like. You know, you scroll and scroll and scroll, and so obviously the time for leveraging the momentum of LSAs are brand new and there’s a really good chance here to get clients at a low cost has already kind of like faded in most of the markets. Now, it’s really becoming a tough and competitive piece of real estate on the search results page.

Liel: [00:17:45] And so I think Google Screened would just end up being one of those things that you do as same as just having your Google my business listing. You’re also going to pay that fifty dollars to carry that extra batch. I think Google is in a position that they can actually afford doing that. Right.

Grace: [00:18:02] They’re dictating where it has to go and we have to follow, unfortunately, because that is one of the biggest, if not the biggest search network out there.

Liel: [00:18:10] So, yeah, I think so, Grace. I think so. So I think it will just become something of a norm. But I do think, on the other hand, Google may potentially reconsider whether there is actual value in this, because then that’s the thing.

Liel: [00:18:26] If everybody is going to have that, then what? Like how are you what are you going to… what’s going to make you stand out? What’s the real value that this brings? Right, when it’s just something that you just buy for yourself?

Liel: [00:18:40] Right. Because, I mean, with all due respect, as hard as background checks can be, you know. You’ve basically just had to be a good citizen in a decent business to be screened by Google?

Grace: [00:18:58] Yeah, I think it’s going to become one of those things that like if you know, if you don’t have it, then they won’t even look at you. That’s basically what it is. I mean, it’s kind of ended up that way with the reviews. If you don’t have a review, a lot of people, at least a couple of reviews, people won’t even look at you at all. So I think it’s going to be one of the same things if you don’t have a Google screened in your law firm and then that you’re going to be completely gone over.

Liel: [00:19:26] Now, I still think, for instance, that the fact that they’re bringing here all the guaranteed element to the actual point, in my opinion, is like it’s no there’s no going to be Google guaranteed for law firms. Right. Google is not going to guarantee with an X amount of money the representation of a law firm. They will do that for a plumber who’s coming to fix your toilet. They’ll say you’re not satisfied and you cannot get a resolution from the contractor we’ll pay up to two thousand dollars to you.

Liel: [00:20:03] Grace, I’m no legal mastermind, but they just won’t do that for an attorney who’s representing a client. But that’s why they created the screened alternative because they will say, well, we’ve run, we’ve done our due diligence and run background checks on these people. They’re licensed. They don’t have anything bad on their record. They seem legit from our end. So go ahead and hire them because we couldn’t identify anything that says that signals a red flag to us. And that’s where it starts. That’s where it ends. So for me, the idea that we continue to talk about there is going to be a guaranteed thing for the law firms. I don’t think there will. I just don’t think they’re real. I don’t think it just fits the type of reassurance that Google is trying to give users about legal representation hired through Google.

Grace: [00:20:56]  Right. No, there’s only two things they’re going to be able to check. There was a background check and they have their license in good standing. That’s it. There’s really nothing else for them to provide to you with regards to Google verified, you know, because there’s no Google guarantee. That’s why it’s as Google guarantee and plumbers, like you said. But it will never say that on the lawyers side. How could it? Like criminal lawyers, work on retainer agreements and fees, whereas PI lawyers work on contingency. So, I mean, I just don’t see how that could even be a possibility. But, yeah, I agree with you completely that, yeah, that’s the way it’s going to be. Another thing, just like GMB, Google my business. You’re going to have a Google checkmark next to your name.

Liel: [00:21:36] Yeah. Grace, let’s move on to the next one.

Grace: [00:21:40] All right, so the next one for me, it talks about SEO strategies. And in my opinion, this is actually kind of perfect right after the LSA conversation, because it’s part and parcel of SEO that you’re going to need to have. Everybody has it. You have to have it. Otherwise you’re not going to show up anywhere. And that includes SEO. Right. And SEO strategies are going to get tech more technical, tougher. Why? Because more people are online. Everybody’s gone. Not everybody, but just about everybody that I mean, we have to is gone remote. And so there’s more emphasis on online than ever, ever before. And so people really need to be hyper-focused on their story, their strategy, and that includes SEO and making sure that you either partner with an agency like Nanato or something of that nature, or you really have such a phenomenally defined strategy that you know exactly what you’re doing and how to get there. But you cannot neglect this. You shouldn’t have up to this point anyway. But it’s one of those things that is just going to get harder and harder and harder to come up on page one of Google.

Liel: [00:22:50] Absolutely, Grace, this brings me back to the conversation we had earlier in the year with Mariano from LawRank. And so he said it perfectly. It was like, you know, anybody who’s already showing on page number one in Google, they’re doing terrific work. Right? They’re doing a great job. Now, what gets you from six to four for four to one is actually micro details that get you that extra points, if you may, that bump you up. Right. That’s one. But then there’s also the authority component and all of those non-ranking factors for Google, but they actually do somehow end up having an impact ride that come into play. And as you very well said, ride those signals that Google is getting from. Are they a Google screen law firm, yes or no? Those are going to continue being very important and they’re just going to continue to grow. So in terms of like, there’s more considerations and more data points that Google is going to be able to look at. And I think what the author here says very, very well is that search engines are just getting smarter and smarter and they’re being way more efficient and really being able to provide users with the right search results that are extremely personalized for their particular search query. So to think again, just in terms of keywords, right, and location, it’s not enough. It’s all about intent.

Liel: [00:24:22] And that’s really where you’re going to start seeing the strategies that are really good doing and focusing on the content and those strategies that are just focusing on trying to get Google to believe that they’re the best choice, taking different directions, the ones focusing on the content, real good content are going to continue to drive those who are just trying to play the Google game are just not going to survive. So, Grace, let’s move on to another one, which I think it’s really interesting because I don’t think we’d ever talked about up here. Maybe we’ve mentioned one time or another something along these lines, but this is the low Bono niche. Grace, can you please explain what does that mean to start off with in case some of our listeners hear this term for the first time. 

Grace: [00:25:12] So low bono? Right. We’ve all probably heard of pro bono, which is free legal work, but low bono. This has to do with something we talked about once before very briefly, and that is creative ways of charging your clients so that they can actually afford it. Right. Because most people that might need a lawyer, let’s say, you know, one that doesn’t necessarily work on contingency, that you need to pay upfront. Those lawyers. As an example, in most criminal attorneys, you can’t afford them. The people that may need them maybe think they can afford them. And so firms out there need to think about this as a potential strategy for what I would consider maybe low hanging fruit. And you can consider your low hanging fruit, your low bono clients, where you create a package for them that you can still help them and you market that to those people that need help but, maybe can’t afford it, because now you have this package deal for them. You have good lawyers. You have great lawyers that can help your people, but for less. And so the Low bono niche has become pretty important. I’m sure. I’m in Florida, so I’ve seen some of these commercials where they have the even the attorneys are talking about 25 percent fees rather than forty percent fees or thirty-three percent fees. And that can be considered low bono as well. But the whole idea is people who can pay some but can’t pay a lot, they avoid attorneys and now there’s a way for them to still hire an attorney, still feel like they’re getting the value that they should be getting from hiring an attorney. And the attorney also is able to help somebody for less because they have a package created.

Liel: [00:26:58] Grace, so, first of all, what you’ve just said there about being in Florida and starting to see law firms advertising about their fees percentage and stuff. I’m actually very aware that there is a lot of clients that actually go around calling law firms, how much is your fee, how much do you take? And that’s how they select who’s going to represent them, Grace. So first of all, in a market where that’s starting to take place, you one hundred percent need to be client-centered and make it very clear to the clients what’s the value of working with you? Because what’s going to happen if you don’t have that established the law firm that’s going to charge point five percent less than you do, they’re going to take up your business. So the only thing that’s going to make you stand out, first of all, keep your fees as they are and potentially grow them in the future, if that’s what you want to do, is actually be able to deliver a way better client experience and make it very clear to your clients as to what are the benefits of working with you. And so that’s one thing. Now going back to what you were talking about Low Bono there, Grace.

Liel: [00:28:19] That’s one of the major opportunities that the legal industry has had forever. And nothing’s been done about it. And it’s just going to get disrupted in such a way that we’re just not going to know how and what hit us whenever it happens. I mean, there have already have been for the past five years stories of universities and law firms in Australia and in the UK that have created and program boards that are able to handle and dispute traffic tickets for users that are helping asylum-seekers file a request all fully automated or fully replacing human work. Ok, and some of them are actually being given at no cost. Some of them are actually charging extremely low fees compared to what a law firm would charge. And so what’s happening here, Grace, is that if law firms don’t start claiming back this…

Grace: [00:29:21] Interaction with the client.

Liel: [00:29:23]  These interactions, these services. Right. They’re just going to completely end up being handled by A.I., apps, if you may. And what’s going to happen is that the users are going to say, well, if I can do this through that, maybe I can also write my will through an app or through software.

Grace: [00:29:43] Actually, I was going to not interrupt you, but that’s exactly what I was going to say. Legal zoom and rocket lawyer.

Liel: [00:29:49] Oh, yeah.

Grace: [00:29:49] They’ve replaced basic wills and estates type of document.

Liel: [00:29:54]  Who hires attorneys anymore for contracts. Right, Grace? So but it’s the reality, right, Grace. And so there’s major disruption coming our way and it’s so important to keep that in mind. And I think law firms need to start thinking of this as the breach of making that connection. Right. What’s the life term value of an actual client that may start with maybe what is an entry-level service, but then evolves right into a series of frequent project scopes or contracts that then, you know, as a whole collectively become a more meaningful account for the law firm Grace. And so my thing is that if you are one of these law firms, you need to start marketing that as direct to consumer brands. Do make sure that you’re upfront with a price. Make sure that you explain very clearly what’s the value, what’s the benefits, what’s the way to go about it so that users can build the confidence and the awareness to actually want to work with you.Because this whole thing of being kind of like you have to call, find out. And so for that particular type of incidents is leaving a lot on the table. Grapes a lot. A lot on the table. I don’t know what you think.

Grace: [00:31:13] No, I agree completely seriously. Because that I couldn’t have said it better. Honestly, that’s the thing. I mean, even I’m thinking about myself, right. I like to turn it around and say any business, if I have to go search for what I have to pay you, I’m probably not going to pick you. I’m the type of consumer that likes to do all kinds of research before I choose whatever it is I’m going to choose, particularly if it’s something like a lawyer. But if I can do it on my own and it’s something that I know that I can do on my own through legal zoom, I’m going to do that instead. So like you said, you need to make it transparent, clear if this is your target, if this is a market that you’re interested in helping people at this price point or at a price point that’s lower than what anybody else does, you just need to build out your strategy, make sure that you hone in on that and that you have a package and a process already created to address those types of people with a level setting, expectations within your firm and for those clients that are interested in that particular service.

Liel: [00:32:15]  One hundred percent, Grace. And the beauty, when you start doing and building up things like that, is that there are tears, there are levels there, premiums, right. Then everything gets super granular. You get to actually break things down, more transactional, at more transactional levels. And you give back in a way or another the decision making to the actual client as to how much they want to pay, how much they actually want to get back from you, and that also at the same time keeps you in control. But even more important, sets up your expectations back to the consumer as to what exactly they can expect to get from you. Right. So, again, I mean, there are two different worlds here. And so if you see that there is an opportunity, which there is a massive opportunity, that’s clear. That’s a fact. For Low Bono work, you just need to stop following the traditional way in which law firms are marketing themselves and really start seeing yourself more as a direct to consumer brand. And I mean, you want to take up some cues, look at Turbo Tax, look at other companies that have actually build up solutions where they kind of do self-help and some premium versions that have assistance bundled up. Right. Does that make sense?

Grace: [00:33:37] It does. I keep seeing these commercials with everything.

Liel: [00:33:41] And so these are exactly these are and if you’re wondering like so which are these industries that are exactly in the same hold in the legal industry is exactly these ones finance, banking, insurance companies, health care. Right. They’re all in the same hole and they’re just going to be disrupted in a way as we’ve never seen. Banking already started. And needless to say, insurance is going to get a kick under the butt Grace like we’ve never seen before. And legal is not far from it as well. So you either protect your brand big time so that you can stand out when more affordable alternatives come your way. People can actually continue to see the value of actually, no, I want to actually work with these guys because it doesn’t matter whether it cost a little bit more or not. They’re just reliable, trustworthy. I just like seeing them sponsored a message at church every single week, whatever that is, that’s important. That’s going to be the differentiator between one law firm and the other. Grace. Let’s let’s look. We have two more points to cover. Actually, there’s three. But quite honestly, the next one. 

Grace: [00:34:51] I feel like three of them can be combined into one actually.

Liel: [00:34:56] I think one of them is still a standalone. And I’ll start with that one, which is the billboards.

Grace: [00:35:01] Right, exactly. Yeah. That one’s by itself.

Liel: [00:35:04]  Ditching the billboards. I mean…

Grace: [00:35:07]  How many times did we talk about that.

Liel: [00:35:09]  I don’t think that’s a 2020 thing. I think that’s a 2000s thing, but. Billboards. I don’t know, like… 

Grace: [00:35:19] If it works for you, it works for you. It’s part of your strategy and you’ve seen actual attribution to it in the sense that you can or in the best way you can. And it’s been part of your strategy. I wouldn’t say give up those billboards necessarily, maybe deprecate some of them. But when it comes to billboards, it works, still works, even in this covid world, because there are people traveling in trucks when it comes to PI accidents. There are people on the highway still. I mean, people still need to drive and they still need to see these billboards. Now, I don’t know if I would say it’s your entire strategy. If it is your entire strategy, you got a problem. But if it’s a component of your strategy and it’s worked for you and it works for you, the target that you market, I don’t see why you need to ditch it completely.

Liel: [00:36:06] Yeah, I think, Grace, you need to know who your buyer persona is. You’re after truck drivers that drive a particular route and you go and place billboards strategically across down this road. You’re doing an excellent job. That’s what you do. These people are actually on their truck driving with their eyes on the road eight hours a day. Not watching your cell phone, not on Facebook. Right. So you’re actually doing a great job getting in front of them. They’ll know they’ll remember you and potentially you’ll fulfill your purpose. I think. Grace, what here basically the author is saying is just, you know, people are not on the street as much as they were before. I think, you know, for a part of 2021, we’re going to be, again, very much in the same way that we’ve been for the past nine months of 2020. But I also think that a lot of it’s going to go back to normal. I don’t think people are going to abandon completely their workplaces. I think a lot of people will be eager and ecstatic to go back and do work and run their businesses like they were doing before covid. I think there is a big segment of people who may continue doing rmote work. And so I think it’s a little bit of a wait and see how this plays out now.

Grace: [00:37:27] I heard an interesting statistic earlier today on the radio. As a matter of fact, I still do listen to the radio, at least in the mornings. I like to. And they, I don’t know how true this statistic is because it was kind of funny, but they said that 50 percent of people after the pandemic don’t want to go back to work. And they said the 50, you know, like go back to physically going to work. And it said the 50 percent that do are married. Obviously, it was just a little bit of a joke. But, you know, that’s basically it. It’s like there’s still going to be plenty of people that want to go back to the workplace, if that’s an option. And so that includes billboards. They’re still going to see billboards and that’s not going to be a thing. And like we talked about.

Liel: [00:38:10] For me, Grace, you do the billboards, you don’t do billboards. It’s going to end up being a matter of who your buyer persona is. Understanding that. Not really what’s happening with covid-19 or not anyhow. But I do think it’s interesting and I think we’re going to have to see how this plays out.

Liel: [00:38:29] Grace, let’s talk about the last two points. Right. Which I’ll just read them and let you go for it and create content that drives clients through your website. That’s number one. And create content compatible for voice searches. And the last one, which I think those are the three that you wanted to merge. Sorry, I was keeping one answer. Relevant questions. Great.

Grace: [00:38:51] Yes.

Liel: [00:38:52] So first of all, why are all of these can be merged into one point?

Grace: [00:38:57] Because it’s all about content.

Liel: [00:39:01] That’s actually true they old started with a word, content.

Grace: [00:39:07] Google my business and content. So to me, that’s why I said all three of them can be combined. And I can very easily tell you what we’ve been saying over and over again. Look, when it comes to content and your website, write it for them, not for you. You’re not writing it for yourself. Just make sure it’s information that people are looking for. You can find that out by simply looking at your analytics and very easily checking to see what people land on. Will people stay on meaning bounce rates and write content for your people based on questions that your community asks, that your clients ask, that everybody asks on social media and so build content and write content that drives clients to your website. It’s never going to change. I, you know, it’s not going to phase out anytime soon, as the article very well says, and it’s not going to change. I’m sorry. Content is king and will be king for the foreseeable future.

Liel: [00:40:03] So I totally agree with everything you say. I like here the emphasis on content compatible for voice searches, which in other words stands out for writing your content conversational, right?

Grace: [00:40:15] Yes. 

Liel: [00:40:17] And that’s something that’s been said so many times, it needs to be read in the same way that it would be said. Natural language. And grace, I particularly here, need to just make a little parenthesis for those law firms that have pages in Spanish that just completely neglected this rule. Because unfortunately, they’re using Google Translate to basically translate the English content into Spanish, which ends up being a mess. And so my advice for those firms is, please, please, please, please, OK, if you have in your law firm, your organization, a friend of a family, whomever, right, that it’s actually a native Spanish speaker. Key component here, a native Spanish speaker in the US. Ask them to read it even better if you can pay someone to transcreate it. Mind you, I’m not using the term translate, transcreate your content. So then it actually has just overall better results. That’s with regards to writing content, that is conversational writing content that is actually easy to read and that can be used by voice search as well.

Liel: [00:41:33] It can be triggered by voice search and Grace, also, I think featured snippets come back into play here. You want to be able to see your content start showing there. And that’s kind of like the last point. It was answering relevant questions. So Grace, as we finalize here this list and go into takeaways, if I may, I would like to put up number one, which is like huge emphasis on SEO, huge emphasis on creating content. One thing, Grace here that I really starting to stand out for me more is that I think in the last few years, everyone’s been more focused on because of this whole keyword world thing is to write content for superhigh intent keywords to trigger that and kind of like not focus so much on the top of the funnel search queries, which now are starting to become more necessary right to build that authority, to build that relevancy with Google. And so that’s where we see now why so much focus is going down to create the good and relevant and interesting type of content. What are your thoughts?

Grace: [00:42:51] I feel like we’ve kind of gone that direction to where our content, instead of being specific for keywords or something like that, it’s more long-form and explanatory where it gives you a lot more information than you might have been looking for. But it seems to be working better because that’s at the end. It seems like that’s the true user intent, was to find this information when they end up on this long-form. So, yeah, no, I agree with you. I think that the SEO is harder and content is more difficult. But if you are consistent and you keep up with the real and good information that people are looking for using your analytics to tell you what that is. I think you’re good to go.

Liel: [00:43:33] Yeah, absolutely great takeaway number two, you have one.

Grace: [00:43:37] Yeah, Low Bono. I think that was such an important aspect and I was so happy to see it in this article actually because it’s something I’ve always thought about, you know.

Liel: [00:43:47] Yeah.

Grace: [00:43:48] You create packages for people to help them. If this seems to fit part of the way you work your law firm, I think you need to look at it. If you haven’t already.

Liel: [00:43:57]  You have to look at it no matter where exactly it sits on your analysis. If it’s an opportunity, just embrace it, wrong with it and start thinking like other brands that are trying to do a low entry-level cost program for anything are marketing themselves. Right? Take the cues from whomever you want. This could be other industries that have been doing this for a while. Fitness. There’s no shortage of direct to consumer brands out there in retail as well that are actually doing a great job with their marketing on that. So take your cues from there. But if this is an actual threat for you, then start focusing more on building your brand, start focusing more on creating a law firm that is client-centered above anything else. So people come with you because you just are worth the additional cost that may be associated with working with you. And that’s it. That’s the bottom line.

Grace: [00:44:56] It doesn’t matter where it is on your SWOT, what you need to address it and you need to attack it head-on, not let it simmer and sit. Why are you the one I should pick if you’re not going for a low bono idea? And why are you the one I should pick if you are? And what are you going to give me?

Liel: [00:45:12] Yeah, exactly, Grace. Now we have our last takeaway.

Grace: [00:45:18] Content, content, content, content. And that even then…

Liel: [00:45:22] Grace, again, content.

Grace: [00:45:22] Well, I mean, what am I to say? Billboards, because honestly, when it comes to billboards, I feel like you and I, we have different, it’s not that we have different ideas. It’s just what your strategy is. So I mean, content to me that fits in line with all of the things we were talking about content, creating content, creating community awareness content. Just make sure you sit and you look at your strategy, please.

Liel: [00:45:47] Yeah, I think so. That’s an important point. 

Grace: [00:45:49] Yeah, we’re going into 2021. Now’s the time to just grab a hold of all your stuff. If you haven’t already look at all of it, look at where your holes are, and build content for people, not for you.

Liel: [00:46:01] And read what’s in your website. Right. That’s another thing. I was just yesterday having a conversation with an attorney and he just told me. Right. He’s had his website for years, years and years. And at some point this year, he just sat down and started reading his practice area pages, blogs, and he was really not pleased with what he was reading. And I think that’s something it’s a great exercise to do. And it doesn’t mean that when it was published back in the day, you also felt the same way. But over the years, over some time you may have things have changed and have evolved. You need to cut up. Right. So that’s another important thing. And we’ve talked about that before. But, Grace, I also want to throw in another takeaway here, which is kind of like bringing back, again, the LSA ads and the pay for performance thing is diversify marketing. So there is no black and white in the sense that I only do organic. I only do paid. I think by now it is clear that you have to play both sides right. You need to be aiming for an organic presence, but you also need to have a paid one. And if one thing has become very clear here is that both on the organic and both on the paid side of things, there are really no shortcuts. So while pay for performance may be a very enticing concept, do your due diligence, test things out if they’re working particularly for you, fantastic. Right. But if they’re not, then don’t completely shut the door on other options that exist for paid digital marketing, particularly Grace. And those are our takeaways.

Liel: [00:47:53] So Grace, that’s it.

Grace: [00:47:56] That’s it. That brings us to a close. And I got to say, though, I really enjoyed that low bono section. I know I keep saying it and I know you said at the beginning, but I think that’s something that we could pull out and a lot of people can benefit from.

Liel: [00:48:08] Yeah, I think so too as well. An area that is open for exploring.

Liel: [00:48:13] Talking about exploring. Grace, have a great rest of your day.

Grace: [00:48:16] You too.

Liel: [00:48:16] We’ll be back next week. Take care.

Grace: [00:48:19] Talk again next week.

Liel: [00:48:22] If you like our show, make sure you subscribe. Tell your co-workers, leave us a review, and send us your questions to ask@incamerapodcast.com. We’ll see you next week.

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